GUN Your doctor could put you on no-gun list

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by spankaveli, Jun 25, 2007.

  1. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    16,466
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    LA. State, not City.
    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56311

    ON CAPITOL HILL
    Your doctor could put you on no-gun list
    Congress fast-tracks plan to let physicians ban weapons ownership
    Posted: June 21, 2007
    11:04 p.m. Eastern

    By Naomi Laine
    © 2007 WorldNetDaily.com


    Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., announcing a provision to allow doctors to ban people from owning guns

    The House of Representatives has fast-tracked new legislation to "improve" the National Instant Criminal Background Check System by allowing doctors to now decide who can own firearms.

    The proposal, H.R. 2640, was sponsored by U.S. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., in the wake of the April tragedy at Virginia Tech, when a gunman shot and killed more than 30 people, then killed himself.

    McCarthy, whose own husband was killed in a random shooting on a commuter train in New York City in 1993, introduced the "NICS Improvement Act," which sailed through the House in three days.

    The plan is the first congressional effort to curtail gun ownership rights in a decade, but by being put on the fast track was exempted from the ordinary committee hearings and public scrutiny most proposals are sent through.

    (Story continues below)

    "Millions of criminal records are not accessible by NICS and millions others are missing critical data," said McCarthy. "Each year, tens of thousands of barred individuals slip through the cracks of the system and gain access to firearms. Simply put, the NICS system must be updated on both the state and federal level."

    If the Act passes in the Senate, it would provide grants so states can add the names of criminals to the NICS system, which would label them as unable to own firearms, but it also flags those with medical or psychological issues as unfit to possess a gun.

    The plan allows names to be entered into the NICS system based solely on a physician's diagnosis or prescription of a medication: adults who have taken Ritalin and soldiers with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder would be classified as mentally ill and given the same opportunity to own firearms as convicted felons: None.

    Gun Owners of America is one of only a few organizations alerting consumers to the implications.

    "Under this bill, based solely on a diagnosis of a psychiatrist, an American's name could be dumped into the National Criminal Instant Check (NICS) system," said GOA Executive Director Larry Pratt, who called the plan "conviction by diagnosis."

    The organization, which launched a campaign to lobby the Senate to reject the plan, said the McCarthy plan "dramatically" expands the "dragnet" used to disqualify law-abiding gun buyers.

    "So much so, that hundreds of thousands of honest citizens who want to buy a gun will one day walk into a gun store and be shocked when they're told they're a prohibited purchaser, having been lumped into the same category as murderers and rapists," the organization said in a statement on its website.

    The legislation requires states to better share records that would disqualify individuals deemed unfit for gun ownership by inputting those names into the FBI’s Instant Criminal Background Check System.

    "This underscores the problems that have existed all along with the Brady Law. At the time it was passed, some people foolishly thought, 'No big deal. I'm not a bad guy. This law won't affect me.' But what happens when good guys' names get thrown into the bad guys' list? That is exactly what has happened, and no one should think that the attempts to expand the gun control noose are going to end with the McCarthy bill," the gun owners group continued.

    "Speaking to the CNN audience on June 13, head of the Brady Campaign, Paul Helmke, stated that, 'We're hopeful that now that the NRA has come around to our point of view in terms of strengthening the Brady background checks, that now we can take the next step after this bill passes [to impose additional gun control],'" said the gun owners.

    "Get it? The McCarthy bill is just a first step," the group said.

    The Act is a response to the Virginia Tech tragedy.

    Tech student Seung-Hui Cho was not flagged when he purchased guns, although the state of Virginia knew Cho had been ordered to undergo mental health treatment. No evidence indicates that Cho could have been stopped from opening fire on classmates had the new changes been in place at the time of the shooting.

    The National Rifle Association has endorsed the plan as a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally unstable.
     
  2. Aequitas

    Aequitas If it keeps on raining, levee's going to break.

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Disqualify someone from purchasing a firearm without any court action? Way to go NRA.
     
  3. Small Block LSX

    Small Block LSX BMW | N54 | LSX | Gun | PS3 | Parent | Night CREW

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    35,515
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    If someone is mentally ill they shouldn't be able to acquire firearms. Now, if they are going to go on a rampage and kill some innocent civilians, they will acquire the weapon one way or another.

    Will this stop crime? No. Will it make the anti's feel safer at night? Yes.

    I have nothing to worry about as I know I am mentally capable of owning and using a firearm.
     
  4. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    14,502
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    N37°18'37" W120°29'50"
    that is the same mindset that makes hunters not give a fuck about black rifles and allowed shit like the AWB to pass.
     
  5. Small Block LSX

    Small Block LSX BMW | N54 | LSX | Gun | PS3 | Parent | Night CREW

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    35,515
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    How is that the same mindset? I never said I support hunting rifles and not black rifles.

    I said if someone goes to a psychiatrist and has wacky ideas, is on all sorts of medications, why SHOULD they be able to own a firearm? Would you want these individuals being able to acquire a handgun just because it is a "right"?
     
  6. Aequitas

    Aequitas If it keeps on raining, levee's going to break.

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    How about the people, adults and children, that have ADD and are now potentially banned for life from ever owning or posessing a firearm?
     
  7. Gaunt

    Gaunt blood for the blood god OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,589
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Seattle
    i see this as a first step. if they get the nationalized health care system in the doctors would work for the government they can pick who can one a weapon ie nobody.
     
  8. t1h

    t1h Guest

    aren't states already supposed to do this? enfore the current law :hsughno:
     
  9. no7fish

    no7fish New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    822
    Likes Received:
    0
    He didn't say the same thing, he said the same mindset. It doesn't apply to you directly so you're not concerned.

    I am all for there being some form of mental disqualification. It'll hopefully bring the average level of competence up for gun owners. I definitely disagree with the lack of either court order or at least second opinion.

    Just because your [possibly anit-gun possibly just doesn't like you] doctor thinks you shouldn't have a gun is a bit of a silly reason for you to end up on the list. In the case of mentally deranged people though I think this is an excellent plan.

    I think we can all agree there are people out there mentally unfit for weapons and some of them could be on the black list quickly under this. There are also plenty of people that are not a threat that could be on this list and that is unacceptable to me. Whatever happened to checks and balances? Does that stop where law-making is concerned and doesn't transfer to the actual laws now?
     
  10. D-FENS

    D-FENS New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    5,197
    Likes Received:
    0
    If a doctor diagnoses you with some real serious disorder, I can see the sense on putting you on the black list, but it sounds like this will fuck you if you have even the smallest thing wrong with you. If they were to come up with a specific list of disorders which would blacklist someone, MAYBE I'd be willing to support it, but as it is now, fuck that.
     
  11. Dumbstixlars

    Dumbstixlars Ron Paul/AR-15/Glock/old car/Scooby/R/C croo OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
    Messages:
    8,379
    Likes Received:
    80
    Location:
    ATX
    Damn this bill is a piece of shit.
     
  12. cabriolet

    cabriolet ...

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0


    Till you get an anti doctor that finds out you have guns and puts you on the list just to stop your gun ownership.
     
  13. Small Block LSX

    Small Block LSX BMW | N54 | LSX | Gun | PS3 | Parent | Night CREW

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    35,515
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Well, it is still a new proposed law. I am sure there we will be many slight changes. If it applies to ADD that is pretty crazy and I would be against it. I have ADD and that would limit me in the future. I guess this means that I just stop going to a psychiatrist (even though I haven't gone since I was 13).

    I was saying more along the lines of a sociopath, etc. Someone who may show violent behavior or show signs of illness that can contribute to violent or destructive behavior.
     
  14. Small Block LSX

    Small Block LSX BMW | N54 | LSX | Gun | PS3 | Parent | Night CREW

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    35,515
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Yes. They are just trying to fix the loopholes apparently.
     
  15. Small Block LSX

    Small Block LSX BMW | N54 | LSX | Gun | PS3 | Parent | Night CREW

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    35,515
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    I see the same family doctor. He isn't that type of doctor. It took me 11 months before I found a doctor that I was comfortable with, my wife was comfortable with, and that we knew would be great when it comes to our son.

    If I ever did get blacklisted from a doctor there would be a lawsuit. The reason for this? I have no current "mental disorder" that would interfere with me being able to put my 2nd ammendment right into action.
     
  16. Small Block LSX

    Small Block LSX BMW | N54 | LSX | Gun | PS3 | Parent | Night CREW

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    35,515
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    And, like I said earlier...

    If someone gets black listed they will find other ways of acquiring firearms to commit acts of violence. There are so many ways to get guns it is rediculous.

    Even at that, most violent crimes are committed with stolen weapons anyways, so this really wouldn't cause crime to drop. Maybe a few here and there, but who is to say the person won't just go out and buy a giant machete and hack their victim to pieces?
     
  17. cabriolet

    cabriolet ...

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Everyone in a psych ward will tell you they don't have any disorders, why is your word golden?

    See what I'm saying here? Ideally most people won't be hurt by this, just like most hunters wont be hurt by an AWB, but it's the rights that CAN be taken away, and like any law CAN be abused. Freedom should be free, laws like this have never helped, they've only hindered the free, law abiding citizens.

    That's the point :dunno:
     
  18. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    38,961
    Likes Received:
    198
    Location:
    Cali-NO NFA-fornia
    if you let it go that far, then you deserve it. testing the waters ftmfw.
     
  19. Small Block LSX

    Small Block LSX BMW | N54 | LSX | Gun | PS3 | Parent | Night CREW

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    35,515
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    I see the point you are trying to make. However, this law is going on the fact that doctors do their job correctly. They aren't taking into account that there may be some rogue anti-gunner doctors out there that wish to black list anyone who may own a firearm.

    The only time I go to the doctor is for routine checkups and shots. I may hit up urgent care every now and then. During these visits they have never given me a mental evaluation.

    Now, let's play devils advocate. Let's say I am a violent sociopath and I only go to normal checkups and urgent care. Wouldn't I be an individual that slips through the cracks? Unless I am going to a psychiatrist they would have no idea if I had some sick and twisted thoughts.
     
  20. Ghostrider4450

    Ghostrider4450 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    12,583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Out of my mind, brb never.
    How is this bill not a piece of shit? I have ADD and take Adderall. So am I now all of a sudden unfit to own my AR15? wtf? :ugh:
     
  21. no7fish

    no7fish New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    822
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is precisely why I say there needs to be limits, WELL defined in the first place, and some sort of second opinion or confirmation stage before anything happens. I think there are situations of mentally unstable people who shouldn't be anywhere close to a weapon but I think they are pretty far between. This is coming across like something that is pretty easy to make happen when it needs to be something that is pretty difficult to enact but quite concrete in the situations it does happen.
     
  22. Small Block LSX

    Small Block LSX BMW | N54 | LSX | Gun | PS3 | Parent | Night CREW

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    35,515
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Wouldn't surprise me. :rofl:
     
  23. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    47,998
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Mini Soda
    I agree that if you have a mental illness, or any medical reason whatsoever that disqualifies you, that you should not have access to guns.
    Some people just should not be allowed to be around guns. But this is not the right way to go about it.

    As already stated... no court interaction? LAME.
     
  24. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    47,998
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Mini Soda

    :bowdown:
     
  25. vettefan52

    vettefan52 Guest

    someone needs to stab that lady's eye out or something with a #2 pencil, so she will waste her efforts trying to ban pencils.
     

Share This Page