GUN Would you turn your gun over for testing? - Gun owners got letters

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by TL1000RSquid, Aug 21, 2008.

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Turn over for testing?

  1. Yes

    9.2%
  2. No

    90.8%
  1. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Gun owners got letters
    http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080820_12_A1_hOSBIa443762


    By MANNY GAMALLO World Staff Writer
    8/20/2008
    Last Modified: 8/20/2008 2:20 AM

    OSBI agents went to gun dealers and pawnshops to create a list of .40-caliber Glock owners.


    WELEETKA — Authorities working to narrow their leads in the June 8 shooting deaths of two girls used old-fashioned legwork to come up with a list of area gun owners with .40-caliber pistols, one of two weapons used in the slayings.

    Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents knew the caliber of the guns used in the killings, so they merely checked with area gun dealers and pawnshops to determine who had bought or recently pawned .40-caliber Glocks.

    "It's a typical procedure of any investigation" involving a gun, according to Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the OSBI.

    That time-consuming procedure yielded the OSBI the names of more than 60 owners of .40-caliber guns in the Weleetka area.

    Consequently, the OSBI sent letters to all those gun owners, asking them to voluntarily submit their weapons for test firings over the weekend at the Okfuskee County Courthouse at Okemah.

    About 40 of those gun owners showed up on Saturday and Sunday, and their weapons were fired once or twice and then returned to them.

    The fired bullets and shell casings, meanwhile, were sent to
    a crime lab for analysis to determine if any of them match those used in the slayings of Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13.

    Brown said about five of the gun owners no longer owned the weapons, but they provided the names of the new owners.

    The other 15 or so gun owners who did not show up will be checked by the OSBI to see why they didn't volunteer for the test firings.

    "They can have any number of reasons" for not volunteering, Brown said. "They could be against it, they could be anti-government, or they eventually may want to help."

    Because the test firing of the weapons is voluntary, Brown said there isn't any constitutional violations involved.

    "It's a process of elimination," she said, noting that the tested weapons may have been loaned out by the owners or someone else may have had access to the guns.

    On Monday, when the OSBI announced that it had test-fired weapons, it stated in its press release that it had sent letters to the "registered gun owners."

    That prompted concern Tuesday among many in the public, who noted that Oklahoma does not have a gun-registry law nor a central database of gun owners.

    Tom Harris, an agent with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in Tulsa, confirmed that.

    According to Harris, most states, including Oklahoma, and the federal government do not have lists of registered gun owners.

    He said the only way to get a listing of gun owners is by canvassing gun dealers or pawnshops individually to find out who bought weapons — as the OSBI did.

    Harris said gun dealers — "federal firearms licensees" — have to fill out ATF form 4473 whenever a weapon is purchased. The form lists the buyer, the address and other pertinent information.

    They also have to contact the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) to determine whether the prospective buyer can legally purchase a weapon.

    Harris said the 4473 forms stay with the gun dealers and are not submitted to any government agency. They are, however, available to law enforcement.

    If a gun dealer goes out of business, the 4473 forms are stored in an ATF warehouse, he said.

    Although the OSBI made public that a .40-caliber weapon was used in the slayings, it is not identifying the caliber of the other gun used.

    Brown would not say whether voluntary test firings would be held for the other weapon.

    Authorities believe the killers are from the Weleetka area, given the remote location of the girls' slayings.

    They said the killers had to be familiar with the area — N. 3890 Road (County Line Road) north of Coleman Road, about four miles northeast of Weleetka.

    Skyla was visiting Taylor at her home when they decided to go for a walk that Sunday afternoon.

    They walked north from Taylor's home along County Line Road to the Bad Creek bridge, a half-mile away.

    Investigators said the two had made it to the bridge and were returning to Taylor's home when they were gunned down.

    Their bodies were found in a shallow roadside ditch, less than 1,000 feet from the Placker home. They were found about 30 minutes after they had left for the walk.

    Autopsy reports on the girls showed they had been shot a total of 13 times.

    Skyla, the youngest, was shot eight times, and she suffered the most .40-caliber bullet wounds.

    Authorities noted that each of the girls was shot with two weapons.

    The medical examiner recovered spent bullets from their bodies and described them as small- and medium-sized.
     
  2. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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    No. Connecticut has no shell casing requirement.
     
  3. mikeflys1

    mikeflys1 New Member

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    What a great idea...im sure the guilty person will voluntarily bring his weapon in too.
     
  4. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I'm sure he obtained it in a way in which he'd have a 4473 on file. :hsugh:
     
  5. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    so with all the kB's there should be about 25 .40 glocks left in the area
     
  6. mikeflys1

    mikeflys1 New Member

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    and theres that too :o
     
  7. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    Like they said, they just eliminated having to look at 40+ suspects. I'm betting they have nothing to go on at this point. If "FBI files" is any indication, the majority of the time cases with no witnesses are extremely hard to solve. They have no choice but go door to door to people and ask questions and see how the person responds. Its unlikely it was commited by a legal weapon but maybe someone had their gun stolen.

    To me this doesn't sound like a big deal. Its entirely voluntary and may help narrow a search for a murder suspect. Downside is they will probably keep the volunteers' gun ballistic data in their records.
     
  8. Sardaukar

    Sardaukar Active Member

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    :bigthumb:
     
  9. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Being a suspect should involve more than just having a gun similar to the murder weapon. What if the killer took in his clean glock and left the murder weapon that wasn't on a 4473 at home? He would be eliminated as a suspect? You're right that its just grasping at straws, but it doesn't do anything at all to catch the killer or eliminate anyone from suspicious.

    Or it could waste a bunch of time and money, set a precedent for more prove your innocence style investigations, turn up a false positive, etc.

    To me one of the more disturbing parts is the letter that was sent. I think it is very misleading and while it initially pays lip service to the idea of being voluntary, could be misleading or intimidating to many people.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    You're right, they are grasping at straws. Right now, all they have is a list of 60+ people they know own a type of gun they are looking for. Its their responsibility to check every possible avenue they have to solve their case. Most gun owners and aficionados are very well aware of their rights and probably don't feel obligated to do this. I wouldn't volunteer, but I got nothing against them asking.
     
  11. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    So in the case of rape without leads is it their responsibility to check everyone with a penis? Maybe even ask for a dna sample to rule them out as suspects? This test can't eliminate anyone as a suspect, at best it can only eliminate a particular gun as the murder weapon, so whats the point even? I also think you greatly overestimate people's knowledge of their rights.
     
  12. crazynova

    crazynova OT Supporter

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    They have every right to ask for voluntary participation.
     
  13. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Since I'd have nothing to hide, and the gun is returned to me immediately, I do not see the problem with it.
    It certainly wouldn't make me comfortable, but as I said, I'd have nothing to hide.
     
  14. Jinkle

    Jinkle Habs/Vikings > *

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    I'd tell them to fuck off
     
  15. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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    This is how it starts. Next thing England.
     
  16. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Yeah.
     
  17. jeepilot

    jeepilot Banned

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    Their asking isn't the problem... the further probing of people who didn't get their guns tested, and the officers calling them "anti-government" is the problem.
     
  18. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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    Anti giant govt.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2008
  19. T0nyGTSt

    T0nyGTSt New Member

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    wouldn't even waste my time finishing the letter

    besides, everyone knows those Federal departments aren't professional enough

    what's to say they don't shoot their toe off with my fotay?
     
  20. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    Its your job to defend yourself and your rights, and its their job to follow every possible lead and make their own job easier.

    I understand this can turn into a "prove your innocense" type thing for the people who did not volunteer. I jsut don't see it as a big deal because there is nothing the police can do about those not volunteering except trying to ask questions which no one has to respond to. It is each person's responsibility to understand their rights. The police are kind of being assholes by skirting around those rights but on the scale of all the things the police do horribly wrong in this country, this incident simply does not rank very high.
     
  21. mattsb2000

    mattsb2000 OT Supporter

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    I always fill out a 4473 when I break into someones house and steal their guns.
     
  22. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

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    Fuck no.
     
  23. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    I wonder if there was enough time between sending out that letter and the testing to replace the extractor, barrel, firing pin and possibly polish the breech face.

    I probably wouldn't out of opposition to the police behavior, but I'd expect an argument with the lady friend over that decision.
     
  24. I wouldn't. It is perfectly fine for them to ask though.
     
  25. 1979TA

    1979TA OT Supporter

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    I think it is OK for them to ask, the problem comes in when they decide what to do with the people that didn't volunteer. If they try to get subpenoas or really any more of an investigation on those people, that is the problem
     

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