would like suggestions... (home audio)

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by the pretender, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. the pretender

    the pretender teh burninator

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    I'm rebuilding my system piece by piece - want a good powered sub in ideally the $200-250 range shipped. (More, maybe, if it's really really justifiable, but not much more than that.)

    What's on the market is incomprehensible, just one thing after another. I don't care if it's a brand new creation or something that's been out there for a while, just as long as I can get it new.

    Here's what I have so far...hell, throw in some suggestions for another set of mains, if ya want. :)


    Receiver: http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/Specs/?gAVR00010HTR-5250

    Mains: http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/HXseries/NS_777.htm

    Room is 11'6" x 11' x 9, for reference.

    Thanks for help and stuff. :bowdown:
     
  2. Jazz

    Jazz Powerhouse of the Scrum

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    A diy approach may be the best way to go in that price range.
     
  3. XR250rdr

    XR250rdr OT Supporter

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    I agree on the DIY part. Take a look at the Adire Audio Shiva and PartsExpress has some decent cheap plate amps.
     
  4. the pretender

    the pretender teh burninator

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    I dunno - there's a lot of stuff out there that was initially $400-500, prices dropped as newer models were introduced and such. I'm mostly looking at subs in that category, but I'll possibly go up to $400 if the performance is good enough that it'll last me a while.
     
  5. 04

    04 Guest

    http://www.adireaudio.com/home_audio/loudspeakers/exact_series/rava.htm

    Adire Rava is 399. Uses the Shiva woofer in a sealed enclosure. A very good value for 400 dollars considering its less than 100 dollars more than it would cost for you to build your own.
     
  6. Mycophiles

    Mycophiles OT Supporter

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    That Adire Rava is nice but I wouldn't buy it. It's just a shiva in fancy packaging. :p Plus it's sealed. :confused: What's that all about? I'd go with a regular old Shiva which you can buy for 100$ (10") and throw 500watts to it and make my own box. Whaalaah.. you got yourself a box that will pound. Earth Shaking bass is what it's all about!! :)

    Just my 2c ... 04 is the man to listen to though. :wavey:
     
  7. Jazz

    Jazz Powerhouse of the Scrum

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    You can get the Hsu STF-2 I have for that price...I love it. I've never heard the Adire products so I can't really compare, but I tried to get the best sub I could for $350 (at compusa...dunno if they still sell them) without it being too much work and I think I came out alright.
     
  8. Mycophiles

    Mycophiles OT Supporter

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    Just for saying so... I have the Adire Brahma in my car and I can attest to their quality. ;)

    But the reason I came back in here Is b/c I was looking at that reciever. I'm not sure what other pieces of equipment you have in your place are and what your looking to get out of this reciever but to look at the reciever details it doesn't look like it is all of that nice of a reciever. What I did was compare it to mine and it's nearly the same and mine's a Sony and made 3 years ago (300$ then and 170$ now). I think the yamaha has S-Video out and a couple more audio presets, a dedicated bass channel and that's about it. :dunno:

    Whatever... but what will you be attatching to this reciever? Just out of curiosity.

    BTW I found this post on Hometheaterforum.com

    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=2096023
     
  9. XR250rdr

    XR250rdr OT Supporter

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    btw... the Shiva is a 12 and in most enclosures it cant mechanically handle 500W. 250-300W is more than enough power.

    But I agree...if you can build your own box, do that. Save $150 on the deal and have more output.
     
  10. the pretender

    the pretender teh burninator

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    Heheh...no, that guy isn't me. :p
    Promise.

    In the long run? Probably just more speakers, maybe a DVD player/tv someday...basic stuff. I've never had anything video related hooked up to it, the whole monolithic A/V controller concept = feh to me. Hell, I don't even have a TV in here. Digital connection to computer is more than enough.

    Reason I got it is because it puts out 0.06% THD, and does so at the specified power rating...not much cheating on the specs that I can see. On top of that, the thing is built to handle low impedance speakers without just crumbling after some abuse. I have a friend that managed to blow out a Sony (playing Linkin Park :mamoru:) with a total of two car subs and some 8" 3-ways from the early 1990's hooked up - I can hook up the subs I have back up, wire in the 15" 3-ways, and toss on the Yamaha mains - no probs. Sounds pretty nice, too.
     
  11. Mycophiles

    Mycophiles OT Supporter

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    Ohh... I thought you hadn't bought the Yamaha reciever yet. :doh:

    pssst. make the sub box and DIY. ;) Good luck
     
  12. 04

    04 Guest

    The THD ratings on a reciever honestly don't mean much. If the distortion percentage is below 1 percent, you won't be able to hear it for sure, and even 3 percent would be hard to hear in a lot of cases.

    Also, the most likely reason that that Sony reciever was destroyed is that it was presented with too low of a load impedence. If the car subs are 4ohm, and the 3-ways are 8ohms nominal, that is a 2.67ohm load (if wired in parallel), which is WAAY too low for almost any reciver to handle.
     
  13. 04

    04 Guest

    Not everyone does DIY though. I agree, a DIY design would be much better than the Rava, but if you just want to buy a prebuilt subwoofer, it is a very good deal for 400 dollars.

    It is sealed because for a subwoofer enclosure for the shiva would have to be very large in order to get a flat and accurate frequency response. Which is why the Dharman is available for 200 dollars more. It's vented, but much larger and costs more.

    Not everyone wants a huge subwoofer in their rooms, and a vented shiva design can be twice the size or more than the Rava.
     
  14. Dobis P.R.

    Dobis P.R. Guest

    Adire drivers rock.

    I own both a Shiva and a Tempest.
     
  15. the pretender

    the pretender teh burninator

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    Well, I'm pretty hesitant to DIY it - if only because I really suck at math and anything related (ya know, calculating box size and features based on those neat specs that come with whatever you choose to do the work) and because the investment in tools to do it properly may well cost more than the sub. On top of that, I'd like to just toss in the car subs I have, but I'm not too keen on shelling out the cash for everything, investing the time, and discovering that - hey - the crap doesn't work so good! Just a lot of things that can go wrong.

    Inversely, I don't want to go audition something, presume it's not that bad based on what I hear in the store, come home, hook it up, get comfortable and later annoyed with it. This stuff, for the most part, is permanent.

    On top of all that mess, I don't have that much money or time to invest...while I'll happily dump the cash necessary into such a project, I'm not going to go to extremes just to have the best of the best; nor will I deal with perceptually substandard gear anymore just because it seems like an easy choice.

    Considering between the two 15" 3-ways and the 12" subwoofers I used, I want similar but better-sounding results...those things altogether would shake the room to pieces but everything else - mid/high end just sucked. I want to swap the damned things out, put in something that powers itself and sounds better, and put a couple more mains in their place, since the receiver will operate them without issue.

    Building a system to last for 15+ years is not simple, I've found...wheee. Moreso trying not to be financially excessive.

    Help, 04? I'm a tough cookie. :p


    As for the comment about gravity and sag - I don't believe it. We're talking about something under physical, elastic restraint (read: not going anywhere, unless your suspension is mush) that weighs at most a couple of ounces. You think it won't take just as much energy to push that same cone forward/backward against gravitational effect and the inertial mass of the cone? I don't see how gravity just disappears when you place it in a vertical orientation....you still have to deal with it pulling on the damned thing, plus mass...which I believe would be way more integral.

    Newton's Law - pretty simple, I think. At most this sag would amount to a fraction of an inch, unless the cone is monumentally heavy...in which case it's inefficient anyhow. You want the least amount of mass and also the least amount of physical distortion in order to achieve adequate, efficient sound...resonance notwithstanding, but I'll leave that to the people designing these things to solve.

    The bass theory just doesn't work, either, unless you're going by overall effect, rather than just the implied one of gravity/inertia. Downfiring subs may help a little more (I'm guessing by loading and resonance in structure of house or whatever) but otherwise...it's a moot point.

    04 - I looked at THD not because of distortion, per se, but because if it can do better at high power demands with less distortion, it is probably better...relatively speaking. The discretely powered channels et al only contributed to that fact...I like knowing I get 100/110 watts out of each regardless. Not using what you have is better than not having it...contributes to bad sound, based on experience.

    As for the friend - well, he fired up his 450 watt stereo, hooked it up to Polk car subs (with no comprehension of anything aside from "Yeah, it'll drive them - watch!") and ran them past excursion and limits constantly, along with the shitty 8" speakers he had just laying around for what little treble he could get while cranking rap music. Go figger. Doing that is damn near a guarantee of failure, all technical aspects excluded.
     
  16. 04

    04 Guest

    No, it really is a factor. A driver with a low free-air resonance would have to have a relatively compliant suspension (compliance is the inverse of stiffness). Because of this, the weight of the cone can play a factor. When mounted normally this isnt a concern because the suspension will keep the voice coil centered in the magnetic gap and rubbing, because it does not allow for side to side movement. However, when mounted down or up firing, the sag CAN allow for the cone to sag, and if it sags too much, you will have a loss of linear excursion, not to mention a shift in the drivers small signal parameters. That fraction of an inch CAN make a big difference.

    As for downfiring making a difference in the sound, he wasnt refering to the sag of the driver having any affect, I assume he was thinking of the loading affect provided by the floor or something. In any case, its mostly wrong at low frequencies you arent going to have much if any gain or cancellation for that matter. Subwoofers are relativly insensitive to orientation, room placement on the other hand is a different matter...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2004

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