Women, logic, and state

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Falconer, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I was browsing the relationship forums at Mystery's site and saw this post, which I thought was good:

    Discuss.
     
  2. MattThom01

    MattThom01 New Member

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    Why not treat this like the On Topic forum, and have you start the discussion? You found it, copied and posted it, odds are you have a thought or two on the subject.

    And I don't see the appeal of literature that breaks down relationships and attraction into such technical terms...especially since the same literature asserts that women are guided by emotion, not thought.

    For those who do like it though, carry on analyzing every little move a woman makes.
     
  3. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    :bowrofl:

    One word:

    B-b-b-b-bullshit.
     
  4. fray

    fray New Member

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    WTF?? Do you guys seriously know girls who just randomly go crazy and scream at the top of their lungs for 5 minutes or who punch and choke people with sand? I mean, I've seen girls get all emotional and cry and yell before (usually the drama queen types, not normal girls)...but does this really happen?
     
  5. fray

    fray New Member

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    .

    I get the feeling that mystery's method is such a "huge success" because he's mostly lying to fluff himself up...
     
  6. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    Ok, here's the trouble I have with these types of "informative" posts from seduction sites, and the whole reason why I have chosen to abandon the use of seduction material and just figure this shit out on my own by creating my life the way I want it. First of all, I'll preface what I say by saying that I believe this stuff probably works. I say "probably" because I've only used THIS type of shit in small spurts mainly because I cannot get myself beyond what I am about to say. But I have no doubt that these tactics and these little info dumps probably work for some people, even if I don't ascribe to them.

    That being said, I do not ascribe to this shit because it smacks of insecurity and supplication. YES, the very thing they preach against, I believe they are hypocritically riddled with themselves. The reason I believe this is because you look at these posts by these "don juans" (or whatever they call themselves) and they are obviously pandered to make themselves look good. They are self-seeking, manipulative, and some of them (like the one I quoted above) downright outside of reality and obviously hammed up.

    I've been to sosuave (I still go there off and on) and I've been to the forums that our good buddy ware_ru (good rest his trollish soul wherever he may be) suggested a while back called theattractionforums (which is where this quote came from, no?). And there are only a handful of guys who seem to really "get it". The rest seem to put up this paper wall of confidence, that only the naive can't see through and are pretty much laughed at by anybody who reads them.

    Don't get me wrong (although I doubt you PUA hounds will really see or acknowledge that I am about to say this and will likely just flame me for what I've said so far), I've read a lot of the seduction material. I've even tried it a few times. I believe there is a lot to be learned from it, if anything to teach us to quit being pansy pushovers and start going after what we want. It's not for me because I feel like it's taking needy, insecure men and pandering to their insecurities by masking them and turning them into something they are not. They also encourage men to do thing that I cannot bring myself to morally do (like take a girl off her boyfriend, just to make himself feel better about his insecurities and validate himself, or put down other men who they feel is a threat or who make them insecure--which happens here quite a bit).

    I can't bring myself to be that kind of guy. I've tried. I just can't do it. I don't knock any of you for ascribing to this bullshit, but it's quite simply not for me. I'm going about it in my own way (which is taking longer, I am sure, and is a lot harder), but in the end, to me it's worth it.

    /rant
     
  7. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    Oh and before anyone jumps into my shit for that post, I don't discount it all. In fact, "Magic Bullets" is on my reading list somewhere down the line when the mood strikes me, and I still see the Mystery Method as being pretty informative to me and I learned a lot from this shit.

    But I don't buy into it totally. And I only use what I feel works with my personality. :dunno:
     
  8. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    :werd:
     
  9. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I wanted to see if other people's experiences matched or didn't match that quote.

    I do. It's for smart people like me that overthink everything. When I was a little kid it was all emotion and I was good socially. I had a million friends and was super popular in school (elementary school lol). In middle school I realized the (academic) advantage of analyzing everything. I applied this same concept to social situations and started to suck socially. Of course, it wasn't a conscious choice; I was just wired to analyze everything. From then on it was pretty much the same. People like me need this shit to be absolutely broken down into the smallest components and presented logically. In the last year or two, social interactions have started to make so much more sense to me. I'm sure this sounds retarded to most people reading it, but it's true. I now understand why some chicks are attracted to douchebags. Don't get me wrong, I still think they're mentally damaged for being that way, but I understand why it's the case, and that's all a super-analytical person needs. It's like scientists who predict that the universe will end with a big collapse (opposite of the big bang); they're not pissed that death is inevitable; if that's how it's going to end, they'll be excited that they're figured out how it works. It makes sense to them. Objective truth. That's what is important. I understand why people stay in abusive relationships. I understand why people seek out the kind of partners they do. I understand better what drives people to cheat. Before I was pretty clueless trying to shove a logical square peg into the emotional circular hole. I based all my actions on logic and had a superiority complex, too, as a result (I still do kinda, I'm not gonna lie). Sure other people were having more fun than me, but everything I did was more efficient and better, and so they were retarded and I was brilliant. The minority of people who saw things my way instantly clicked with me. If nothing else I'm more understanding and well-rounded socially now as a result of Mystery's and Tyler Durden's (of Real Social Dynamics) material.

    Women are guided by emotion, but MEN (us) are guided by logic. That's why it has to be broken down logically for us to understand. If it was explained by emotion men would be like "wat this makes no sense lol"

    Will do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2008
  10. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    He was obviously exaggerating but the concept is there. Occasionally even I have been able to get chicks into "state" (altho it usually wasn't intentional and I was like "holy shit!" when it happened.
     
  11. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Curious. I've actually had a similar thought before, altho not about supplication. Explain how they're supplicating.

    Yeah that's where I got it from.

    Kind of like here.

    I agree. For me, it was 80% self-improvement and 20% seduction. Especially RSD stuff (which is what I focused on). Tyler Durden's intro program (I forgot the name... it's like 10 DVDs or videos or something... oh wait, I think it's called "Foundations") was key for me. I liked it way better than MM's stuff. I memorized the MM formula but never was able to pull it off confidently. RSD's stuff, on the other hand, was about getting women because you're confident and you know what you want and you shouldn't be bothered by anyone who has a problem with you. Maybe I'm super lame but hearing him talk about that seriously struck a chord with me, more than anything else I've ever heard in my life. (I say "hearing" because I ripped the audio to CD and listened to it during my 1-1.5 hour drive to work each day). There weren't even any "routines" in Foundations. Well, there were a few little things here and there, but not like MM.

    It's like... if you mess up while working a set, MM would have you think "oh shit, I need to do x to get her back into A3 to save this now. Fuck, that didn't work! We're back in A2! I should be in C2 by now!!! I need to try y. Maybe that will work and get us back into C1. Shit. It didn't work! I don't know what to do!" And if you mess up during a set, RSD would have you think "lol, oh well. I don't even care because I don't need to be validated by this girl. I'm awesome and confident. Yeah, my life is good."

    I'm not really into stealing gf's, either. But like I said, it's about more than that.
     
  12. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    If you can, get a book by Tyler Durden called "the Blueprint."

    In that book, along with in Foundations, he explained concepts that I had seen before but never was able to intellectualize. Like he would explain something and I'd be like "omg... OMG! I know EXACTLY what he's talking about!"

    For example, like what it means to be congruent. I had witnessed people trying to be cool but who weren't actually congruent with the image they were trying to portray all my life, but I never really knew why. Now I do. We always called them poseurs or try-hards or whatever. I even did a Psychology thing talking about why two people could do the same exact thing and one person could pull it off (or get away with it socially) and the other person wouldn't, except I had a different name for it. I saw that concept a lot, but I never fully recognized it until I heard TD talk about it.

    Again, that's probably basic stuff for everyone else and you're reading this and going "lol Falconer u r a nerd n u suck socially haha nerd" but whatever. I'm just saying what helped me.
     
  13. dumb_end_user

    dumb_end_user Sad Gus

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    I'm just here to laugh at women and logic being used in the same sentence.
     
  14. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    btw since the thing I quoted talks about being "in state," there's also what is referred to in RSD as being "in state" which guys can do. It just means when you're totally "in the zone." Like when you can get a chick to open you just with eye contact (compared with other times when you suck and can't get any chicks to talk to you despite your best efforts).

    They're different. So don't get confused.
     
  15. JordanClarkson

    JordanClarkson OT Supporter

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    Sounds very exaggerated. Is this guy afraid to be emotional? It's impossible for a guy to not ever be ruled by emotions. Otherwise guys wouldn't cheat on their gfs/wives because they're always thinking logically :mamoru:
     
  16. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Guys can be run by emotions, like when a guy kicks the ass of a guy his gf cheated with (when actually that guy didn't do anything wrong and may not have even known that she had a bf). But it's just as dumb when guys are emotional as when women are.

    The difference is that these things can be explained logically to a guy :mamoru:
     
  17. JordanClarkson

    JordanClarkson OT Supporter

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    werd :mamoru:
     
  18. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    i think it's a load of crap.

    MattThomas, you don't understand the appeal of breaking everything about relationships and sex down into technical terms. So you don't understand the appeal of psychology?

    I doubt that.

    I think you "don't understand" the appeal of APPLIED psychology.

    Which is to say that it puts you off to know guys out there apply stuff like this and what's worse - the possibility that they do very well.

    IMO this distaste of yours can only be because of two things.

    Either you're really good with women naturally, and feel bad for these guys because you know of any easier way to get laid / handle relationships. This is common with naturals who hear about pick-up.

    OR, you're an average frustrated male, and like every other chode, you get defensive when you hear about or see a guy doing better than you.

    It's like when I first heard about guys hitting on girls directly and I whined about how "I would never disrespect a woman that way." That is called a rationalization. It's not that I "don't understand," it's that I fear being one-upped by fellows who (in my mind) I can never be like.
     
  19. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Falconer,

    TD's boyfriend destroying post is frigging amazing. It's not that you're appealing to logic, you're just generating the correct responses and the correct emotions.

    The blueprint's not a book yet... it's in video form. Do you have that beta copy of the book or something? I found the video to be pseudo-philosophical pseudo-intellectual poo.

    Notice the guy you quoted doesn't say "I have extensively field-tested TD's bf-destroyer and ran into the following issues." Right? He just posts his theory. Sounds horribly "KJ".
     
  20. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    This isn't something you can "try out" a few times.

    That's like saying, "I went to the gym and 'tried out' the whole bench press thing a few times."

    Dude it doesn't work that way. Development takes consistency in ANY field.

    The most BASIC element of learning this stuff is making it into a HABIT. I mean that is the one constant across all the methods and whatnot.

    So there is something very daft about saying you "tried it out" a few times. That is absolutely not how it works. You don't go to a gym and "try out" lifting a few sets. That will NOT give you experience with fitness, that will not even give you a TASTE of fitness. Nor can you run a few sets and know anything about what pick-up actually means - ESPECIALLY if you're poorly socially calibrated to begin with. The whole point is the persistence, the individual methods barely matter next to that.
     
  21. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    Oh yeah, I left out what I observed this past Saturday. I went up to help my dad and my cousin's boyfriend and my uncle build his shed on Saturday. My cousin's boyfriend is a carpenter and he spends his time building houses and shit for a living. He works HARD all the time and is kind of a "man's man" if you know what I mean.

    Anyway, as I was helping them, we were talking and as they were talking, I was thinking. Here's a guy who works hard, is pretty secure with himself, and likes to have fun. I'll bet he doesn't sit around on some forum talking about how to get into women's pants. He just is who he is, makes no bones about it, and just DOES. The thing of it is, on a looks scale, he's about ugly as sin :)mamoru:) and kind of redneckish. But he has always gotten with women and pretty much settled down with my cousin.

    My point is that these guys (and US because we come here all the time) who spend their life chasing ass and spend their life trying to figure out the female mind are in a lot of ways supplicating their entire LIVES for the sake of getting with women. The only difference between THOSE guys and "nice guys" is that these guys get laid.

    But they focus on manipulation and cheap tricks to do so, and never really deal with the insecurity behind why they started as nice guys. Sort of like the whole "pendullum" swinging from one side to the other.

    And you'll always notice that anybody who criticizes these guys are either:

    1. Laughed at
    2. Called a "chump", "chode", whatever

    They are teaching people not to react (laugh it off or don't let her see you are affected by her), to bury their feelings, and to hide who they really are JUST TO GET LAID.

    To me, that's like the ultimate supplication. And again, I'll say that the stuff works to get men laid and up off their asses. But it does NOTHING to turn these nice guys into MEN. Nor does it take away that insecurity that was there in nice guys. All it does is mask it.

    :werd:
     
  22. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    Let me rephrase:

    I have spent the past two years in intense self-improvement. I have read books. I have made changes in my life. I have applied the stuff I've read (some moreso than others) and I have learned a few things on my own. When you are as hopeless as I was two years ago, it takes a LOT of time to fix the mountain of different problems that I had all at once, but one by one I am doing it.

    So in essence, I have been making self-improvement a habit. And I have been applying it to my life in myriads of ways. In fact, there hasn't been a day in the last two years that I haven't waken up thinking about how I was going to improve myself that day.

    I just can't do the seduction material because it doesn't fit me. I feel like it panders to insecurity and I want to GET RID OF my insecurities.
     
  23. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    It's MattThom.
     
  24. BlackIce72

    BlackIce72 New Member

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    guys can't get into state?!

    I did the community forum thing for a while. Then I dropped it all and just did cold approaches and ignored what people said. (By the way, I've met dozens and dozens of guys from these forums and they nearly all suck)

    I noticed I got more success going out and meeting girls than sitting on a computer and talking about them.

    To each his own.
     
  25. Viper

    Viper OT Supporter

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    :bowdown: :werd:
     

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