Women and Men in conversation

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Limited Edition, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. Limited Edition

    Limited Edition New Member

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    I'm reading "You just don't understand: women and men in conversation" by Deborah Tannen and came across an interesting quote.

    Why are few women inclined to appreciate help in fixing emotional troubles?
     
  2. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Because women like drama, and fixing emotional troubles would lessen drama.

    I'm half-joking.

    Example:

    Woman: "So-and-so at work is such a bitch. I can't stand her. Every time I walk past her stupid department she's always talking about something that she and her stupid friends did. And then she looks at me like she's soooo much prettier than me and tries to talk to me, but she's just stupid. What a bitch. I hate her!"

    Man: "Easy solution: since she is not in your department and you don't need to have any contact with her to do your job, just don't talk to her."

    Obviously that would solve the problem. If the woman really didn't like encounters with this person, she would not engage her. Problem solved. It's like if you don't like mustard on your sandwich, you don't put mustard on your sandwich. Problem solved.

    But, I gaurantee you that, in this case, the woman will not change her actions, because she enjoys the drama for whatever reason.

    Therefore, she will reject the man's solution because doing so would eliminate the drama from her life.
     
  3. littlemonster

    littlemonster New Member

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    As above. Mainly because nearly all females are actually evil beings who like fights and cattiness. Most women expect everyone else to adapt to them.

    And I say this in guess-knowledge as a female, seeing many of my friends do this stuff all day long. Hence that 90% of my friends are male; therefore making life much simpler, for me :)
     
  4. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Note that I do not hate women. It has just been my experience that, when presented with the ability to remove themselves from a dramatic situation that they complain about, they choose not to.

    The logic would follow:

    If you are complaining about something, you do not like it
    If you do not like it, normally you would not choose to submit yourself to the experience

    Since they do not choose to avoid/eliminate the situation, it can be reasoned that they actually enjoy it. (pleasure/reward)

    (this is for normal situations where avoiding/eliminating them would be easy and require no great effort or inconvenience, such as my example above where the woman could simply choose to not talk to the other woman whom she "hates.")
     
  5. quadracer420

    quadracer420 New Member

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    :bowdown: thats my mom right there man. ALLWAYS something to fight about or to make into a way bigger deal than it is. i give my dad all the props in the world for being married to her, I wouldent put up with her shit for a day let alone like 15 years:bowdown: :bowdown:
     
  6. NCS

    NCS Active Member

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    because women use speech as a bonding and rewardal experience. when she is telling you about her problems, she is bonding with you. she wants no solution, she already knows it. this is also why she asks for tons of advice from her friends but ends up making her OWN decision, almost ignoring what her friends have said

    men use speech as a bottom-line expression for problem solving

    there's a lot on this subject btw.

    womens speech centers are linked to problem solving areas of the brain. thats why women talk and talk and talk without getting to the point, they are "flexing their problem solving muscles"

    men's spatial areas of the brain is linked to problem solving in the same way. thats why we shut up , and go for a drive or play a sport or even video games. this is how we flex those muscles.


    women also have less of an ability to "store" a problem for later use. it just churns. so they get it off their chest, where as men will file away and come back to it later.

    since men base a lot on problem-solving, many misconceptions about the intelligence of women is based on their non-problem-solving expresison. it is for this reason that business coaches teach women, who are competing in a male's world, to only express conclusions as to be perceived correctly by a male brain.
     
  7. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    That's the book I was suggesting a lot of the men in here to read :)
     
  8. Limited Edition

    Limited Edition New Member

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    Are women's lives that boring that they need drama for excitement?


    That's the reason the book gave as well and an experience I've encountered proved it.

    Her: (complaining about work and how she wanted to cry)
    Me: (told her a story about my life that related instead of telling her how to fix it)
    Her: :) "You're just trying to get in my pants"
    Later: :buttsex:
     
  9. iwishyouwerebeer

    iwishyouwerebeer you shut your cunt Moderator

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    yep, heh
     
  10. NCS

    NCS Active Member

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    on a serious note i've found that a lot of really hot girls get very bored. i can go on with theories but i think most of them socially interacted as their main use of free time (little hobbies, etc) and from highschool on, social circles get smaller. with less actors, you need more performance, and thus you get the need for drama.

    another thing to think about is for the most part and from a seduction point of view, women want men to lead. if no men lead, she's by definition bored because she's in a reactive role with nothing to react to.
     
  11. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    You cant offer advice for emotional problems unless you're really, really close, simply put: you're not qualified to offer advice on this subject, as you don't understand the situation (ie what shes thinking/feeling)
     
  12. MP525i

    MP525i New Member

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    so when a female comes to a male with such an emotional problem, men just have to sit there and listen? since you said "you" (don't know if you mean men or anyone) can't offer advice, it pretty much limits a man's way to communicate. from the above, men solve problems. if we can't solve the problem, then it's a lot harder to make that female feel better.

    that typically starts some sort of path down another thread where the female uses the line... "whatever." :rofl:


    *btw - VERY interesting topic here. it's a good way to look at how men and women actually communicate and how we're so different.
     
  13. Toda Party

    Toda Party .....

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    Women want you to listen. They love to just yap away.
     
  14. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    Offering advice is one thing, but people (men and women) have a nasty habit of telling you what you should do for yourself as though they are the resident expert on said self.
     
  15. MP525i

    MP525i New Member

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    isn't advice the same as what you're describing... telling someone what they should do.

    i see that the only difference between the two mentioned above is one is spoken with a little softer tone than the other.
     
  16. zengonzo

    zengonzo New Member

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    I've been explicitly taught not to offer solutions, to just listen to problems and essentially be a sounding board ..

    Frustratingly, when I do one day actually sound off about something I get a load of obvious solutions back with the sort of irritation that suggests that a woman shouldn't be used as a sounding board.
     
  17. MP525i

    MP525i New Member

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    i just to sit and listen, but i always end up blurting something out. it's like what falconer was getting at. you have a problem, here's how to avoid it, from my point of view. take it or leave it.
     
  18. Midgetized

    Midgetized Don't mess with Douche Cat

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    It's not just women, men love drama too but they aren't as likely to admit it. Just go in the main forum and you'll see lots of men getting into the drama. Same goes for tv.
     
  19. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Careful of that word should....there is an implied expectation. It sometimes sounds something like this: "if you were thinking clearly, which you obviously aren't, then you would act this way and therefore you should do this."

    My experience has been that telling people what they should and should not do is not an effective way to help them. In fact, it usually fails miserably with the person either doing exactly what I told them not to or doing something else I don't aprove of. lol

    What I have found to be more effective is to explore the problem and help that person figure it out for themselves. This is difficult to do because I'm so used to solving problems.....hell I'm a programmer and that's what we do!!

    One thing I have found helpful is not trying to solve every problem and just accepting that sometimes people just need to experience the consequences of their actions. Afterall we have all learned leasons that way.

    Noone can solve every problem or have an answer for every situation. There are some problems I can't answer but when I do have a solution or an idea for a particular problem I'll say things like: "Well if I was in that situation I would do X becasue...." That way the person is free to take or leave my advice and they usually don't resent me offering it. But I would make sure to stay far away from judgements about the person and I always work really hard to avoid using that word should.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2007
  20. MP525i

    MP525i New Member

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    very good point. didn't even think of it that way.

    but when you're trying to help a person out, regardless of whether it's a man or a woman, and they ask for advice - aren't they essentially asking "what should i do?"

    that's how i've always viewed advice. maybe i'm in the wrong here and the majority see advice being that scenario you described above: where the person in trouble is looking for this type of response from you "Well if I was in that situation I would do X becasue...."

    regardless, i know i have to work on how i choose my wording. i'm always being misunderstood. :rofl:
     
  21. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    Not necessarily. Some people like to "think out loud" so they talk and that process helps them work things out in their minds. There are others, usually women, that just like to talk...this talk is usually done for bonding with other people. THere there are those that seem to just get off on rehasing old problems but they never solve anything.

    Some people do like to be told exactly what to do but I have found this to be a small number. Yes most people seem to generally want advice when they ask for it and that's what my focus is usually on. Helping them. I have found that staying away from "shoulds" and trying to put myself in their shoes and sharing my own personal experiences has been far more effective than simply telling people what to do.
    I don't think you are in the wrong....I'm just sharing what I've found over the years. I don't have a lock on the truth and others may disagree with me....that's fine. THere isn't one single technique that will work with everyone.

    The more I focus on helping the other person the better off we both are. If I let my ego get in there, I'm usually going to screw it up somehow.
    I used to have this same problem and it was really frustrating because I wanted to help but instead I would usually just piss someone off or make the situation worse or w/e.
     
  22. ass_kicker32

    ass_kicker32 New Member

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    I use the "I would do x..." answer when putting up with my wife's bitching and she usually responds with... "Oh thats what you would do? Whatever..."
     
  23. spirited driver

    spirited driver New Member

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    100% truth
     
  24. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    In my experience the best response is to listen to her, then say something like "Well, it looks like your three options are just avoid the evil bitch, tell your boss and hope he handles it better then the other time, or you can start a fight with her at the office, which i doubt will end up especially well for anyone"

    notice, im offering options, which are carefully crafted to both reflect what she said so she feels validated and listened to, but the choices are presented with a slant to reflect my opinion. you dont offer radical suggestions this way. you basically mirror her thoughts and steer her. use the same language she used. if she called her an evil bitch, you gleefully call her an evil bitch too. If she spouts some crazy drama filled revenge idea, don't discard it or tell her not to do it. indulge her a bit. Hell, go overboard and say "Oh she deserves worse then that, you should do all that and then <insert funny way over the top revenge idea>" here instead of saying, no you shouldnt start an office rumor about her having herpes, you are showing that you are on the same team while still making that option look silly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2007

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