Women and Dirt bikes

Discussion in 'OT Driven' started by desired_apathy, Jun 13, 2008.

  1. desired_apathy

    desired_apathy New Member

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    Looking to buy a spare bike to have, so friends can use it when we go out to the desert. The bike will obviously be used with alot of beginners :o. Looking to get something cheap $>1000 :dunno:.

    Typical height 5'-5'5 weight 100-130
     
  2. squid

    squid braap

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    cr125 or an xr100
     
  3. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    What is it sapposed to be keeping up with? 80-100cc 2 stroke is a good all around bike.
     
  4. desired_apathy

    desired_apathy New Member

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    A bike that can pull with other rides isn't really necessary. It's just something other people can have fun with, but let's say a cr250 and cr500. I got offered an 87 yz250 that runs good for 400 bucks. Seems like a good deal to me :dunno:.
     
  5. desired_apathy

    desired_apathy New Member

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    Obviously I won't make them shift out of first till they're comfortable with the bike :o
     
  6. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    I think you are on the right track.

    My vote is 80-100cc 2 stroke or 200-250 4 stroke.

    Quick, and a bit of a handle for small built first time riders, but they wont stand up on their own and are fun to ride.
     
  7. desired_apathy

    desired_apathy New Member

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    Are you for 2 stroke or against? ;o 4 strokes seem to have big advantages. ;o
     
  8. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    I dont have a problem with 2 strokes. They take a little more maintanance but provide a lot of power in a small package. They dont have a very flat torque/power band so you have to know how to use the power band if you want to keep up with decent riders. They are a little easier to start, at least for me. Just kick the hell out of them. 4 strokes you have to make sure you are kicking long and hard.

    Of course, if you are looking at electric starts that doesnt really matter. lol.

    Also, I'm not a big dirtbike fenatic so there may be downfalls to 2 strokes that I am unaware of. I just ride them occasionally and know they have the potential to make 60-70% more power with the same displacement.
     
  9. desired_apathy

    desired_apathy New Member

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    TWO STROKE ENGINES - THE DISPUTED LIST
    Advantages:
    - Two-stroke engines do not have valves, simplifying their construction.
    - Two-stroke engines fire once every revolution (four-stroke engines fire once every other revolution). This gives two-stroke engines a significant power boost.
    - Two-stroke engines are lighter, and cost less to manufacture.
    - Two-stroke engines have the potential for about twice the power in the same size because there are twice as many power strokes per revolution.

    Disadvantages:
    - Two-stroke engines don't live as long as four-stroke engines. The lack of a dedicated lubrication system means that the parts of a two-stroke engine wear-out faster. Two-stroke engines require a mix of oil in with the gas to lubricate the crankshaft, connecting rod and cylinder walls.
    - Two-stroke oil can be expensive. Mixing ratio is about 4 ounces per gallon of gas: burning about a gallon of oil every 1,000 miles.
    - Two-stroke engines do not use fuel efficiently, yielding fewer miles per gallon.
    - Two-stroke engines produce more pollution.
    From:
    -- The combustion of the oil in the gas. The oil makes all two-stroke engines smoky to some extent, and a badly worn two-stroke engine can emit more oily smoke.
    -- Each time a new mix of air/fuel is loaded into the combustion chamber, part of it leaks out through the exhaust port.


    And from Jonne's page: Why 4-stroke beats 2-stroke
    First some explanation on how the 4-stroke engine works:
    When the piston moves down fresh air and gas is sucked inside the cilinder from the carburettor. When the piston moves up again the valves are closed and the air is being compressed. When the piston reaches it's highest position the sparkplug produces a spark that ignites the fumes and causes an explosion. Because of the power of the explosion the piston is pushed back. When the piston moves back up again the exhaustvalve is open and the fumes are pushed out the cilinder. Now the whole process restarts (exactly after 4 strokes. That's why we call it a 4-stroke engine...Duh!).

    The 2-stroke engine works a little different. It performs 2 strokes at the same time (twice) so after only 2 strokes the whole process restarts. A two stroke engine uses the space above and below the piston. Below the piston are fresh gasses, above the piston these gasses are ignited. Assume the piston is in the lowest position with fresh gasses in the cilinder above it. When the piston moves up, these gasses are compressed, but at the same time teh airpressure below the piston drops and fresh air is sucked inside. When the piston is in it's highest position the sparkplug ignites the gasses and the piston is pushed down. About halfway down a channel from the fresh gasses to the exhaust gasses opens and a channel to the exhaust. Because of airpressure differences the fresh gasses flow inside the cilinder pushing the exhaust fumes out. Now the process starts again. As you can see this only took 2 strokes.
    But which one is better?!? Of coarse "we" 4-stroke people say 4-stroke, but do you know why?? Probably not, so I'll explain. First I'll name some of the advantages of the 2-stroke engine over the 4-stroke engine.
    • When the engine is reving at 10000rpm the 2-stroke engine ignites gasses 10000 times per minute while 4-stroke engines ignite only half. So it should have twice as much power, right?
    • The 2-stroke engine does have channels for air transport but the piston opens and closes the channels, in a 4-stroke engine there are seperate valves and a camshaft that do this. This means extra moving parts and a far more difficult cilinderhead design. Because of this maintenance is more difficult.
    • 2-stroke engines give more power. At 50cc races 2-stroke bikes can reach speeds of over 130km/h while 4-stroke bikes can hardly reach those speeds with 70cc!! The same applies to everyday use. When you remove some restrictors from a scooter it will go 80km/h. You won't reach these speeds with you're 4-stroke bike by just removing some restrictors.
    What about the advantages of 4-stroke bikes? Are there any? OF COURSE! LOTS!!

    • So what does a stock 2-stroke bike use? About 1 liter fuel per 35km. What does a stock 4-stroke bike use? About 1 liter fuel per 50km!
    • 2-stroke bikes burn oil!! This absolutely doesn't give them more power and is of no use at all (for ignition pusposes), all it does is clogg up the exhaust and smell bad! So why they do it? They have to lubricate the cilinder and cilinderchannels big time or the engine will be wrecked...
    • Look at the cilinder(head) of both engines. Notice the HUGH cooling fins on the 2-stroke engine. Heck, some of them even have forced air cooling or even water cooling.Did you burn the fuel for heat!?! I don't think so! 2-stroke bikes waste much more energy on heat than a 4-stroke bike does so the 4-stroke engine is much more energy efficient.
    • Did you read the part on how the 2-stroke engine works?? Did you notice fresh fumes are used to push out the exhaust fumes?? Of course these two gasses will mix in that process, so or fresh fumes are pushed out too or exhaust fumes stay in, either way, it's bad and it sucks.
    • Ever tried to speed up a 2-stroke bike?? So fast that it could do speeds of over 100km/h. If you have you know you have to add lots of extra oil to the fuel and even than it's a big problem to keep the engine running for let's say a couple of months without mayor engine damage, wasted cilinders and screwed up pistons. Take a 4-stroke engine on the other hand and it will keep running fine for months and months and months... without extra oil ;) The reason is that because of those channels in the cilinder it's much harder to keep it lubricated enough all the time. The 4-stroke engine doesn't have this problem because it has no channel in the cilinder.
    • Have you ever drove on a Honda MT/MB or anything comparable with a fast cilinder? Did you notice it only had power between about 9000 to 12000 rpm?? Take a 4-stroke engine and it will have power from 1000 to 12000rpm. No problem! The reason is that such a 2-stroke cilinder has optimized airflow channels for that rpm range, outside that range the whole gas mixture gets screwed up big time. That's why those scooter engines always run at almost the same rpm. To optimize airflow, without that a 2-stroke engine looses a lot of it's power.
    • Because of technical aspects the 2-stroke engine can only have it's intake channel open only half as long as the 4-stroke engine...What a pitty :)
    • Listen to the sound of both engines...Doesn't need further explanation I suppose.
     
  10. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    Well I knew how both work, lol. There is some misinformation there, too. 2 strokes done waste any more heat, they just have twice as many combustions per unit time. You're producing twice as much power as a similarly sized 4 stroke so you are going to have to dicipate twice as much het.

    2 strokes are high maintainance, but the article makes out like you wouldnt have to work on a 4 stroke. When you do have to work on a 4 stroke, it is twice as complicated.

    Yes, 2 stroke have a smaller power band, but with in that power band they kick ass. If I wanted to never change gears to speed up I'd put a CVT on my bike...for now it has gears, so use them. lol

    Agian, it's about preferance. 2 strokes are lighter and easier to handle size-wise. They are also easier to start IMO (though if it is a small female neither bike is going to be easy, if not all but impossible, to start). 4 strokes are easier to ride and require a bit less maintainane. If you care about fuel efficency and clean air (personally, I dont when it comes to toys) then 4 strokes are the obvious winner.
     
  11. desired_apathy

    desired_apathy New Member

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    Found a 83 cr125 for around 500 bucks. As far as I can tell, it looks to be in decent shape. [​IMG]

    good or bad deal? :eek:
     
  12. Junkie

    Junkie re-tarded OT Supporter

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    if you're looking at smokers vs the 4 stroke MX bikes that are now replacing them, the smokers are MUCH cheaper to keep running well. do you have to do frequent top-end rebuilds? yes. but you have to do very frequent valve adjustments AND valve JOBS (as in lapping) on the 4 strokes.

    and if you're comparing them to lower performance bikes, well apples and oranges.
     
  13. desired_apathy

    desired_apathy New Member

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    I can do simple maintainance. I just don't want to have to pay for more parts than what the bike is worth. :hsd:
     
  14. 311disaster

    311disaster New Member

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    you guys are crazy recommending 125cc motocross bikes to beginner rider females, that's just asking for accidents.

    stay away from 2-strokes if they are beginners they won't like the powerband just kicking in and wanting to wheelie on them, at the same time it will probably foul plugs alot because it will never be in the powerband.

    I'd look around for a Honda xr200 or something along those lines, suzuki dr-z125, yamaha ttr 125 or 200 would be perfect and also has electric start.
     
  15. aim2kill

    aim2kill New Member

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    .



    maybe even the ever trusty XR100
     
  16. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    Fuck-a 125.

    An unmodded 80 would be fine though, which is what I reccomend if he finds one. 2 stroke or 4 stroke, wouldn't matter to me.
     
  17. desired_apathy

    desired_apathy New Member

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    Found a yz250 2001 for around 1500,however, guy said its a 2 stroke with a 4 stroke trammy. Should I even bother? :hs:
     
  18. GammaRadiation

    GammaRadiation Active Member

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    What's the difference?

    If any I'd imagine the 2 stroke's gears are shorter and the initial gear is taller.
     
  19. desired_apathy

    desired_apathy New Member

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    Your guess was as good as mine. Seems like a good deal , so maybe i'll go check it out. :bigthumb:
     
  20. BKhAH

    BKhAH OT Supporter

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    ugghhh
     
  21. aim2kill

    aim2kill New Member

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    ditto
     
  22. desired_apathy

    desired_apathy New Member

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    the yz isn't for the girls. :rofl: stop uging you lala girls
     
  23. XR250rdr

    XR250rdr OT Supporter

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    Its a fairly common swap. Usually the WR gears are used so the bike has a good wide ratio gearbox; a lower first and taller 5th. I'd really look the bike over though, sounds like it could be an ex desert race bike.

    For a bike to put friends on to learn I would get something like an XR200 or CRF230. You dont want to get an MX bike, it will just most likely intimidate them and turn them off to riding.
     
  24. Cachee0

    Cachee0 OT's Technical Recruiter, Send me your resume

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    Well look into a 4 stroke XR from Honda even advance riders like those just to tool around the trails.

    I just picked up a 94 YZ250 for under a g. Just a tade slower then my friend 05 yz250 but not much.
     

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