Wireless Internet on Laptop???

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by Drudge, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. Drudge

    Drudge New Member

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    So my mom buys a new laptop and she wants wireless internet. I know nothing of such matters. The laptop is brand new so it has a network card. Do i "only" need a router to connect to my cable connection to have wireless internet? Is it as simple as that or do i need something more?
     
  2. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    wireless router will give you about 100 feet of usable range. If this is acceptable, then that is all you need to purchase.

    Please enable the MAC filter, at a minimum -- this should be considered mandatory, imo. I do not recommend WEP. WPA is a good idea.
     
  3. codemartinet

    codemartinet lucky strikes

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    when you say network card, is that a wireless network card? Since it is brand new I am going to assume that it has built in wireless. Otherwise an ethernet network card will not work with wireless. :nono:

    I'd suggest buying a linksys wireless b/g router -- most other router brands are crap and will die within a year (and even if they don't die they will give you endless headaches with things only sort of working). You should read the manual on how to setup your router so that it is secure from random people leeching your internet and invading your privacy.
     
  4. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    The linksys routers fail within a year, too. There's really no great home gateway... Just consider them throw-away.
     
  5. Cerridwen

    Cerridwen Guest

    Can you tell me what a MAC filter is? I have wireless but it's not secure and I don't know how to make it secure :o If you could answer that too I would appreciate it.
     
  6. Drudge

    Drudge New Member

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    Thank you gentlemen this was the info i was looking for, thx again.
     
  7. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    read your router's documentation.
     
  8. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    either turn on MAC filter *or* WEP...any security is better than none and since the MAC address is sent in the clear it's just as easy to break a MAC filter as it is to break WEP.

    like he said, read your documentation for your router. Enabling this is different for different manufacturers. An easier way is to go to the manufacturer's website and read the FAQ for "how do I.....?" and it'll probably give step-by-step instruction.
     
  9. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    disabling SSID broadcast and enabling MAC filter is better than WEP.
     
  10. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    No.

    That's like saying "getting kicked in the balls is better than getting jabbed in the eye." They both suck so how can you compare?

    Numbers 1 and 2 in the "Wireless LAN hall of shame"

    MAC filtering (MAC filtering is absolutely worthless since it is one of the easiest schemes to attack) & SSID hiding (ask Robert Moskowitz who is the Senior Technical Director of ICSA Labs in his white paper "Debunking the myth of SSID hiding - pdf link")

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43
     
  11. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Well, if you go around and talk to people you will find more can/will bust WEP than MAC/SSID combos. And notice in my first post I suggest WPA.

    MAC filtering
    SSID hiding
    WPA-PSK

    ftw.
     
  12. codemartinet

    codemartinet lucky strikes

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    ignore jollyogre - all you need is WPA

    linksys routers provide this so go get one
     
  13. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    :rolleyes:

    If someone can break WEP then they're also capable of breaking filtering/SSID hiding. If you go around and talk to people more people break WEP because WEP is used more often.

    And obviously WPA >>>>>>>. all that shit, but WEP/MAC filtering/SSID hiding has no precidence of sucktitude. They all suck just as bad.
     
  14. RyanL

    RyanL OT Supporter

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    i disagree...

    this is how it typically goes down. someone see their neigbors network under the list of available ones, so they try to connect but can't because they have a password. so what do they do? they try to find out how to break the password. if ssid is off the average user will never see it and they never try to connect. on top of that mac address filtering will futher confuse the average user since they have no clue how it works.

    its like this if you have just wep an average user can google "wireless password cracker" and find out how to do it (well maybe slightly above average).
     
  15. RyanL

    RyanL OT Supporter

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    that probably made no sense :o

    its far to early for me to be posting today
     
  16. dorkultra

    dorkultra OT's resident crohns dude OT Supporter

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    what do you have on your network that you need to protect so badly?
     
  17. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    1. the "average" user will be confused by anything that's not open

    2. but you're saying the "average user" will load crack tools if he encounters a security on his neighbor's router? He'd assume his neighbor was using shitty WEP and go find the warez to break it? No, he'll try the next neighbor or figure "damn" and stop. If his intention from the beginning was to break in then WEP/MAC/SSID won't stop him. WPA most likely will.

    3. ssid hiding only hides 1 of the 5 ways to discover an ssid.

    4. WPA >>>>>>>>>> MAC/SSID/WEP (in no order because they're all easily broken if someone wants to)
     
  18. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    ....and you want to have the RIAA sue you because your neighbor is downloading movies through your connection?
     
  19. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Agreed. So lets talk about the "above-average" user.

    Yes, but lets assume you do use WPA *AND* MAC/SSID. The MAC is an extra layer they have to discover, even if you think it's easy to crack. The SSID does a good job at masking it's existance in the first place. Once they know, the gig is up, but it's that extra "cloaking" that helps. And neither of these degrade performance or range in any way, so you'd be foolish to not use them.

    And 1 of 5 is better than 0 of 5. It's at LEAST 20% more secure, by your logic. In fact, since SSID hiding would mask the EASIEST and MOST COMMON way at finding an SSID it provides security GREATER THAN 20%.

    Of course. But WPA+MAC+SSID >>> WPA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAC/SSID/WEP
     
  20. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    Ok.

    If the above average user wants in, MAC/SSID and/or WEP isn't going to stop him. SSID hiding only hides the beacons...if a client is associated in the house then a sniffer will pick up the packets between the client and the AP. I'll say it again... SSID hiding only hides the beacons, and a MAC and SSID are sent in the clear between client and AP. CLEAR!! So anyone with a sniffer (even if he doesn't know how to use most of the capability) will know your MAC and SSID within seconds of the client sending a packet to the "hidden" AP.
    Did you mean WPA or WEP? Because if meant WPA then he would have wasted his time also configuring a MAC list. This is like putting one of those luggage locks on a bank vault. WPA is infinitely more secure than WEP/MAC lists.
    No. Once a client in the house tries to associate then a sniffer will know both the MAC *and* the SSID. Waste of time.
    Arbitrary numbers...they mean nothing so I'll throw out some of my own.

    common user:
    WEP = 90%
    MAC = 90%
    SSID hiding = 90%
    A"common user" doesn't want to break, won't bother breaking, or won't know it's possible to break any of the above. I put 90% because there's always the chance a neighbor will get the urge to try to break in and will look around google and see if he can.

    advanced user:
    WEP = broken in less than 10 minutes including installing software
    MAC/SSID hiding = broken as soon as a client sends a packet. Assuming the person has a wireless router because they want their wireless client to connect, this should be pretty quick.
    Wrong. WPA + "anything" means you wasted your time configuring "anything."


    You know what SSID hiding does, right?
     
  21. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    by your argument, locking your car doors is "arbitrary" and a "waste of time" to prevent car theft if you have a ignition system that requires an active transponder key.

    But you're wrong, again.
     
  22. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    completely different, but I appreciate all the detail you went into when explaining how I'm wrong :rolleyes:

    So, we're talking about the "above average" user so he'll have an idea that packets can be sniffed. Windows "networks near me" or whatever that shit is won't help so in order to see what networks are around the first thing I'd do is go to google and type "free packet sniffer" or "free network analyzer" or "network analyzer" or "packet sniffer" so I could find what's near me.

    Any of those extremely common searches puts Ethereal Network Analyzer at the very top. It just so happens that Ethereal has a free version that's not cripple-ware so he's going to get an industry-leading fully functional program that's going to hand him the MAC address and SSID. It's literally going to take minutes to install and get past a filter or "hidden" SSID.

    But if you're not going to explain how I'm "wrong, again" then I'm done. Frankly, you bore me.
     
  23. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    I bore you because you are wrong? Hmm, interesting!

    Well, I am talking "above-average" but apparantly you take that to be only certifiable senior network engineers.

    If you think that hiding the SSID and MAC filtering don't provide reasonable deterrance on top of WPA actually encrypting your data, then you are a retard. Most people don't just randomly search for hidden networks... SSID/Mac are effective for anyone underneath the die-hard hacker who specifically wants YOUR data. Sure nothing is hack-proof... But it's all about making it more difficult than the user will find it worth.
     
  24. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    Ignorance abounds.

    Senior network engineer? You have to install a program by clicking "next" to the end and then clicking "start." That's 10 minutes start to end. Try getting a WEP cracker to work. For one you'll have to have a wireless card that runs in monitor mode and not all cards do (do you even know what that means? :mamoru: ). Actually only a handful are capable of running in monitor mode so you better hope you've got one of those!

    Anyway, tihs is getting old so I'll move on.
    This is just stupid.

    Adding MAC filtering and SSID hiding on top of WPA is (to steal your shitty analogy) like locking your car with an active transponder and then putting tape over the keyhole to "make it more secure." :rolleyes:

    If someone wants YOUR data and you're using WPA with a decent passphrase then the only way he's going to get it is by physical means or a trojan, virus, etc
     

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