MIL Why the Hate for Officers ?(long)

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Rodthrower18, Jul 5, 2005.

  1. Rodthrower18

    Rodthrower18 New Member

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    Ok, im in the process of PTing the livin shit outta myself for the next 6months so I can go to the OSO and go to PLC after this coming school yr is up. Damn near every enlisted person I know(even my uncle), Corps or not has a real resentment for officers, why is this ? and how can I be a better officer than these guys that everyone hates? Im not trying to be Mr. popular but when there is a bunch of petty shit in the way its a lot harder to get a job done. Besides I understand that NCOs and enlisted folks have the experience that I dont, and I appreciate their knowledge and wisdom and genuinely want to learn form them so that I can be the best officer I possibly can be. Though you must admit this is a little hard when MANY NCOs immeadiately write off junior officers as " that damned over payed boot" which is true but none of that is going to change from being a "damned boot" to earning the "Sir" and salute if you dont even give them the chance to learn. Like I say I dont want to be Mr. popularity but I know also that I cant effectively do my job as an officer with out the help and cooperation from NCOs and junior enlisted. My uncle tells me to just use my common sense and dont act like a fucking know it all, he told me to basically act the way my Grandparents raised me and I'll do fine. Im following his advice to the letter but is there anything else I can do ? Im worrying about this bc honestly as of late the idea of me being a leader of Marines has inspired me to do things I didnt think I could do, it's ignited a fire within me to excell at everything I do, not for me alone but for the ppl and values that is the Marine Corps that I will someday represent, and Im going to repay the Corps for what they've already done for me(b4 Im even officially part of the Corps) by being the best officer possible, and I WILL become an officer hell, or high water.
     
  2. BassBoy14

    BassBoy14 New Member

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    Not all of us NCOs do that, I evaluate each officer I get, In most cases the ones who understand the value of a good NCO make the best, just treat your Noncoms with the respect they deserve and they should take care of you. Good luck, looking back on my 22 years I should have gone to OCS, the retierment check would look quite a bet better, starting in May of 06.

    Good Luck
     
  3. Zee

    Zee New Member

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    I agree....but i wouldnt change being an NCO over ANYTHING......

    And I still live by this moto today

    Officers are like Children....they should be seen and not heard :p

    But good luck with OCS :big grin:
     
  4. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    The best advice has already been given by Bassboy and Rodthrower. Use common sense, don't be an arrogant asshole, and listen to the experienced NCO's and you'll do just fine.

    Some dont's:
    • Correct bad behavior in public - unless it is necessary for unit effectiveness.
    • Expect your men to trust you without earning it.
    • Talk down to your Marines just because you can.
    • Assume that authority > experience.
    • Forget that you are trusted with the power over the career of every enlisted man under you in the chain of command.
    • Let your desire for friendship or comraderie cloud your ability to lead and command. ("A Marine on duty has no friends".)
    Some do's:
    • Openly praise outstanding work - but don't go overboard with the kudos. Honest praise will motivate. Too much praise will backfire.
    • Work to build trust and confidence in your ability to lead and to learn.
    • Be honest about yourself. Real people have to learn from their mistakes. If you make a mistake in front of someone, don't take out your embarrassment on them. Learn your lesson, acknowledge your error, and move on.
    I guess the bottom line is, "Be Professional". Everything else will fall into place.
     
  5. Zourn

    Zourn 16-bit Ninja OT Supporter

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    You should scarcely curse towards someone, but always curse yourself. I tend to trust people in charge more when they say things like, "Well, damn, I fucked up." or "I guess I'm just fucking stupid."
     
  6. TheNewMonaro

    TheNewMonaro New Member

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    Some advice I was given from a Warrant Officer (part of the enlisted ranks here).

    As a new officer recognise you're fucking clueless and keep your mouth shut for the first 6 months, learn from your senior enlisted, never being afraid to ask for their opinion, after all, they've been around far longer than you have...

    When you're ready to move on you'll know, your senior troops will start treating you with respect.. and for your ability/job rather than your rank, it's pretty easy to tell the difference.
     
  7. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    I was very impressed by that too!

    Spouse is smart. :bigthumb:
     
  8. TheNewMonaro

    TheNewMonaro New Member

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    Well shit, hopefully I have a couple of things right, I am hoping to be a warrant officer/officer after all... :)
     
  9. TheNewMonaro

    TheNewMonaro New Member

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    Also, realise your senior enlisted run the section/company/whatever, in all honesty the best thing you can do to earn their gratitude is shield them from the bullshit that is part of being a member of a large bureaucracy. That means busting your arse to make sure they're out there training for their job, not whitewashing rocks for the General. As the contact point between your unit and Command your job is to shield your men.
     
  10. TheNewMonaro

    TheNewMonaro New Member

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    I actually think the micro-manage comment is very important. Junior officers must remember although they are in command it's senior enlisted that runs the unit, if tht means you backing off rather than getting involved when one of your NCOs is chewing someone out then so be it, it's their show.

    Sorry to butt in as a non-military type, just trying to pass on what I've learnt.

    Edit: with the obvious caveat that the 'correction' is justified (that is, not the result of some private vendetta).
     
  11. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    Excellent advice. This also applies to NCO's. And anyone who is/will ever be a supervisor/manager in civilian life as well.

    Bullshit always flows downhill. It can be stopped anywhere along the slope, and every single person along the way that just lets it flow contributes their own particular stench to the shitpile. Nobody says it's an easy or pleasant thing to do, but like Inforpics said, grow some balls and step up to the plate. That's why the higher you go in rank/position, the higher your pay. Earn it. Push back when you can. Deflect when you can't push back. Suck it up when you can't push back or deflect.

    A lot of times, commanders will chew their leaders a new asshole for things the troops are doing. That doesn't mean those officers and NCOs should necessarilly run out and chew more ass. Interpret your commander's message, digest it for your troops, and pass it on in the most appropriate manner and language for the situation.

    The very best thing you can do for your subordinates is to motivate them out of their respect and dedication for you, rather than out of grudging obedience of your orders. The former will go much farther, faster, and longer than the latter could ever hope to.
     
  12. TheNewMonaro

    TheNewMonaro New Member

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    Indeed, that to me is part of rule #2.

    The rules of a junior officer:

    1. Realise at the beginning you're there to learn.
    2. Shield your men from bullshit, if it's not either training for their job or leave see if you can work around it (obviously assuming minimum standards are adhered to)
    3. Loyalty, you may well have responsibility for a bunch of 18 year olds, remember they fuck up. So long as you believe it to be an aberation of an otherwise good soldier go in to bat for your man, not only do they deserve it it will engender loyalty amongst your men.
     
  13. brackac

    brackac Fuck all of this. OT Supporter

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    I do not hate Officers, but I do think the Officer Corp has become too political. I blame this mainly on the various forms of evaluation systems used by the services. I have seen one to many officers make a command decision based on how it would look on their evaluation instead of if it is the right thing to do for the mission and the troops. We all know how important those precious bullets are to a persons career. And unfortunately junior officers as well as junior enlisted are bombarded with the mentality that their career is based on bullets. This mentality leads to bad decision making by the chain of command, and resentment from the people who have to carry out those orders. It also creates an enviroment where leaders make the safe decision that is the least likely to fail instead of the bold decision that could lead to achievement or failure. Neither of the two mentalities lend themselves to fostering an image of a strong and proud Officer Corp. The Officer Corp comes across as being a group of businessmen jockeying for the office with a view.
     
  14. brackac

    brackac Fuck all of this. OT Supporter

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    A lot of this thread comes across as the rhetoric they teach in leadership school.
     
  15. TheNewMonaro

    TheNewMonaro New Member

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    Having not been to leadership school I honestly have no idea what you're referring to... care to share?
     
  16. Rodthrower18

    Rodthrower18 New Member

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    THX alot everyone for all of the responses above. This is exactly why I posted this here and not some other "military" board, I knew you guys would give me the meat and potatoes of the matter and not some bullshit that makes no sense whatsoever. Everything that you guys have said is NOT hard at all, this thread for me once its finally died down will most definately get printed out and made part of my "REMEMBER THIS" binder, yes I have a binder for important stuff to remember as far as my future in the mil is concerned, im not perfect so this is what i do to help keep these things in mind. Once again thx alot for all of the advice everyone, plz by all means add as much as you can. Im trying to be a sponge as we speak, no use in holding off what I can learn now, besides im almost positive im not the only prospective O wondering these same things.
     
  17. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    ...and just because it is taught in Leadership School means it must therefore be flawed? :ugh2:
     
  18. brackac

    brackac Fuck all of this. OT Supporter

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    I was going to go into this long ass reply about the leadership models of the Army and Air Force but I have to take the dog out.
     
  19. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    so... after the dog goes poop, how about some input on just which of the posts in this thread contains flawed feedback for the thread starter, and in what way? :dunno:
     
  20. aphoric

    aphoric Even if god did exist, it would be necessary to ab

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    Because they are long-winded.
     
  21. Zourn

    Zourn 16-bit Ninja OT Supporter

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    Here's another pearl from teh Zourn, when NOT in fromation or any formal setting, Laugh. Don't get buddy-buddy with anyone, but do let them know that you realise you are as human as them. Laugh, smile, crack *clean* jokes, but only when the time is appropriate.
     

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