Why smart people tend to suck socially v.politically incorrect post

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Falconer, Jan 7, 2010.

  1. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I was listening to a bit of RSD's "Flawless Natural" and he (Tim?) was talking about how the one trait he's noticed in all guys who are naturally good with women is that, in their opinion, they're "the coolest motherfuckers on the planet." He says that it might not be true, but in their own minds, they are.

    He says when he goes out, in his mind, he's the coolest motherfucker on the planet. He then said something like "I might not actually be the coolest motherfucker on the planet, but in my mind I am, and that's what matters" or something along those lines.

    And then it hit me why some smart people (or at least me) have trouble socially.

    (there are a lot of generalizations and non-PC stuff from here until the end of the post so let's not nitpick or argue about it, just focus on the main idea of this thread)

    Let "smart people" = "people whose IQs are significantly to the right on the bell curve)"

    Smart people perceive the world differently from average people. Average people "go with the flow." "Ignorance is bliss." Even though it's fiction, there was an episode of House where a genius rocket scientist or something would "robo trip" (taking dextromethorphan recreationally) because it "dumbed him down" enough to get along with his "hot but average" wife and make him happy in the world.

    Smart people subconsciously evaluate everything they encounter with logic and reasoning. When something happens, a "normal" person will interpret it that "oh, something happened." A smart person will think "why did that happen?" and look for explanations, correlations, exceptions.

    It's wired into the brain. You can't "turn it off" (without drugs).

    It's an issue of perception that is innate to the brains of high-IQ people.


    Alright, back on subject. Why do smart people tend to suck socially?

    It's not enough for smart people to believe that they "are the coolest motherfucker on the planet." Without empirical evidence, they cannot hold that belief.

    Why should you believe you are awesome if you cannot prove that you are?

    Are you good with women? No.

    Are you in good shape? No.

    Are you a sex object? No.

    Do you command the attention of the room? No.

    Are you confident that you could beat everyone else here in a fight? No.

    Therefore, you are not "the coolest motherfucker on the planet."

    You might be smart as fuck, but IQ is not what gets women or social status, so it doesn't matter. It's not are you "the smartest motherfucker in the room." It's are you "the coolest motherfucker on the planet."

    And since you're not, you have no reason to believe so.

    Pretending to be the coolest motherfucker on the planet (faking it til you make it) is a fallacy. Pretending doesn't go over well with high IQ people because it's not absolute. Formulas don't pretend. Correlations don't pretend. Logic doesn't pretend. And these are the things that govern the worldview of high IQ people. Therefore, pretending is so outside of the world view of the high IQ person that it's extremely difficult to do.


    High IQ people approach the problem from the outside in. For example, normal people want to get better socially, so they adopt a confident attitude (inner game) and from that, external changes arise. They start getting better with women. They start developing the traits that make them successful socially.

    High IQ people must work on the attributes of being socially successful before they can adopt the mindset.

    Once they are strong, attractive, good at conversation, and once they know they are strong, attractive, and good at conversation as supported by the empirical evidence of having previous experiences where they were strong, attractive, and good at conversation, then they will be able to support the correct attitude because they know it is true.


    I expect this post will draw a lot of flames and arguments, but I really don't care :fawk: . I also expect a lot of "fuck you, I'm smart and I don't perceive the world that way, you're nuts" type of crap. This just hit me today while I was on my way to the gym and I wanted to write it down and share it.

    And yes, everyone knows of smart people who are good socially, but let's be honest. Most smart people suck. That's why the nerds in school were not the popular kids, and why you have "dumb jock" stereotypes. We all had a few jocks at our schools who were also on the honor roll (and I don't mean because they were taking the easy classes). We also all know the bodybuilder with the PhD, and we know the dumb guy who also sucks socially. You all know exactly what I'm talking about here and I'm not interested in discussing exceptions just for the sake of being a dick "but, but, but, but I knew this one guy who..."
     
  2. bacdo

    bacdo New Member

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    I liked it :bigthumb:
     
  3. blackbirdbeatle

    blackbirdbeatle New Member

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    I disagree and I've read studies that support me. I'll try to get them but they are referenced in books like the venerable Feeling Good. Very smart people lose their social phobia not only by doing but by first breaking down a bunch of little doubts into how logical they are. It's all about challenging negative thoughts. Most of the thoughts are highly illogical and something clicks once they realise that. Sure, external changes will help solidify that they are good looking, but they won't feel how they look. The change has to come internally for most people. This is the biggest reason why CBT works so well for so many.

    There are certain things people I know are extremely good at. Probably one of a handful at their level type of a talent. Yet, they don't feel confident and good about their talent. They have been told many times how good they are and they have seen what others can do but it doesn't click. One example is a friend of a friend that is a pianist. Can play pieces like Scarbo and composers like Alkan with seemingly little problems. I've played for 21 years so I can pick out whose playing is something special. You'd expect him to play all over the world but his view prevents him from doing so.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  4. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    Short end of the story is no. I really couldn't disagree any more strongly with your reasoning.

    What you are talking about is not being intelligent or having a high IQ, its having a high IQ and a serious problem, for instance a mild case of aspergers in conjunction with a high IQ would explain things much more plausibly then your theory that it is the intelligence itself which causes such social issues. I don't think that your assertions about dumbness either. Some of the stupidest people ive ever met are some of the most stubborn, second only to the highly intelligent social retards who are the most stubborn. Highly intelligent socially functioning people also go with the flow when it is the appropriate response.

    Short end, your entire "definition" of high IQ people and what "they do" is complete horse shit.

    Sorry bro :hs:
     
  5. Jimeigh

    Jimeigh Every rook and jay in the corvidae have been raven

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    what does this mean?
     
  6. *RARA*

    *RARA* New Member

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    Lol. Yes, let's use an example off House as "proof".
     
  7. Daiz4yota

    Daiz4yota OT's ENT/Facial Plastics MD OT Supporter

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    Im EXACTLY the same way. If I go to a bar or out in general, I can be the most social person there and be extremely comfortable with it. But at the same time, im actually a pretty shy guy and really enjoy being by myself pretty often
     
  8. untoastytoast

    untoastytoast The Glory Days

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    and that is why it sucks to go through life over-analyzing everything, making yourself miserable
     
  9. Deborah

    Deborah Seeing is believing, but I don't want to know.

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    Not All smart people are like that. Actually, the smartest person I know, in terms of IQ, does not really think a lot. Sure he can be analytical if he wants, but generally he can and does shut it down. Just thought I point it out.


    Your reasoning might be true for some smart people. I have been around a lot of high IQ people and unlike what you said, many of them actually think that they are the shit! Some of them have huge self confidence that sometimes is even fucking annoying.

    There are many reasons for which high IQ people might suck socially. One is the fact that they have different nerdy hobbies that they are very passionate for and they spend most of their time exploring those hobbies which leaves them with little time to go out and socialize.

    One other reason, as my super smart friend put it, is that all the social norms are for "normal", "average" people. So of course smarter people are gonna have trouble with them. Besides, they don't really have much to talk about with normal people. The way average mind works can be stupid and BORING for them. This is why more often than not, they do not "fit" in the society.
     
  10. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    I'm sure you are aware not all smart people are like you. The rest of this post may be valid or not valid for you, but i will be only discussing it speaking of "smart people" in general.


    (there are a lot of generalizations and non-PC stuff from here until the end of the post so let's not nitpick or argue about it, just focus on the main idea of this thread)

    Let "smart people" = "people whose IQs are significantly to the right on the bell curve)"

    This i do not believe to be accurate. I have met plenty of inquisitive retards. Is there anything funnier then hearing how the truly below average understand the the world? Think jessica simpson. "So wait.. is this chicken or fish?". She was not "going with the flow" she was gathering information and trying to synthesize meaning. She just lacked the intelligence to grasp the metaphorical use of "chicken". I would say an intelligent person is likely better able to process information into coherent mental models and make more complex, logically sound analysis and conclusions.

    completely untrue. This may be more of a personal thing. High IQ people can enjoy a dumb action movie, just like the dumb people. Sure, when they walk out they will be talking about the plot holes, but they can suspend critical analysis at will, if the movie is enjoyable based on non-logical measures.


    I don't think fallacy is an appropriate term here. I think you know it DOES work, but are personally unable or unwilling to do so. virgins of average inteligence pretending to be the coolest mofo in the room do significantly better then they did before they started pretending.

    You are now back rationalizing based on your desire not to be inferior. You would like to believe that the attributes you have are positive so you wrote this incredibly illogical crap. Formulas, correlations, and logic are great assets when trying to pretend. A person who has these assets is FAR better equipped to pull of the role of coolest person in the room then someone without these abilities. I could go into details, but i don't think you can even try to debate these points. If you want me to elaborate, I can.


    High IQ people approach problems from the most effective way. Deliberately approaching a problem in a way that is less effective is not intelligent, its in fact the exact opposite. If your options in approaching problems are limited beyond that of an ordinary person, that would really indicate sub average intelligence rather then above average intelligence.

    unsubstantiated assertion.




    How would you counter the argument that because a socially awkward hyper intelligent person does not act like a rockstar when in a special ed class, that the argument that the factual conclusion that you are not the best person in the room is not a valid explanation for why people with poor social skills have poor social skills.


    Think also about this... Intelligent people spend less time and energy to perform mental task. This is proven. Think about a very intelligent person who is good with numbers. They are able to quickly and effortlessly compute things that would take a smart person time and effort. A dumb person might even require paper and pen because they do not have the mental capacity (not the only reason) to process the problem.

    Now think of a socially intelligent person. You believe that they are not thinking because they effortlessly navigate social situations successfully. Doesn't it stand to reason that if they are able to navigate a problem, quicker, easier, with less effort, and better results then you, in conjunction with the fact that you were forced to painfully dissect and analyze like that poor retard doing simple subtraction on paper, that your difficulty is the result of social ineptitude more then your increased analytical ability?
     
  11. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Who said anything about being stubborn.

    Stubbornness is unrelated to IQ.

    My dog is stubborn sometimes :rofl: Learning disability kids are notoriously stubborn.
     
  12. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    cuz the idea has never been postulated before House writers made it up :ugh:
     
  13. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    My point was that they can't really shut it off, tho.
     
  14. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Wait, antihero: are you disagreeing with my premise, that smart people tend to suck socially? Or are you just disagreeing with my reasoning as to why that is the case?
     
  15. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Actually, everyone should read this, too:

    Why Nerds Are Unpopular by Paul Graham.
    http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html

    This guy is smarter (and longer-winded) than I am!
     
  16. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    Umm... you did.

    stubborn as all hell.
     
  17. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    I think that social intelligence and analytical intelligence, as well as things like artistic ability are unrelated elements of a persons mental ability.

    A person can excel at any, all, or none.

    Your case is the case of a person with strong analytical intelligence, but poor social ability. I believe your argument is flawed because you are trying to claim that social ability is a direct result of intelligence when it is nearly unrelated.

    I cant even FATHOM the genius required to carve marble like a master. Seriously, can you even contemplate the mental facilities necessary to mentally conceive of creating something like this in a medium where every chisel strike is immutable? You think the best mathematician in the world would do any better then person with a 100 IQ and some artistic ability? its mental ability, but mental ability is not all that transmutable.

    [​IMG]

    Among geniuses and retards alike there are still the socially adept and the misanthropes


    edit: before you even say it, im aware the best mathemetician in the world would probably be capable of duplicating such a thing via modern technological means, but thats like saying a color photocopy of the mona lisa would be indicative of a similar level of talent.

    edit2: seriously contemplate for a moment how much 3d spatial information processing along with human anatomy, proportion, and scale information would be required to attempt something like that. its beyond daunting. You need to be able to "get it" just like a non-idiot would get "chicken of the sea" in order to even have a shot.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  18. CRXican

    CRXican God Loves Ugly

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    I tend to agree:

    Are you good with women? No

    Are you in good shape? Yes

    Are you a sex object? No

    Do you command the attention of the room? No

    Are you confident that you could beat everyone else here in a fight? Yes

    My main issue is that most people seem fake and tend to annoy me. This makes me reluctant to care about talking to them or socializing with them.
     
  19. BlackIce72

    BlackIce72 New Member

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    It's more than "smart" people "knowing" that they aren't "cool"

    Think about what smart means in different contexts and of different content, what 'knowing' (or, maybe, 'believing'? conditioned to think/believe? repressing and masking with a facade of illusion?) and what "cool" means.

    It's a lot to think about.

    Ultimately in many cases having Tim tell you to think you're the coolest guy will lead to a short term gain, long term loss IMO.
     
  20. Daiz4yota

    Daiz4yota OT's ENT/Facial Plastics MD OT Supporter

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    this thread is a perfect demonstration of what happens when the foundation of your reasoning is based on something as subjective as the label "smart". Intelligence is far too complex and has far too many different meanings to allow any validity to this argument
     
  21. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    Socially inept people always say this. I ask you, did you ever wonder how genuine you come across when you meet someone who even you can identify as having weak social skills? I assure you that people do not open up when they are thinking "what a weirdo". If thats what they are thinking, normal people absolutely do act politely fake.

    Maybe it not that everyone else is fake, maybe its that you are doing it wrong and don't know how to genuinely connect with others.
     
  22. Daiz4yota

    Daiz4yota OT's ENT/Facial Plastics MD OT Supporter

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    I would just skip the part about smart people being the ones who over analyze their actions. Sure there is a correlation, and yes I understand what you are saying. It makes more sense to just describe the phenomenon of people who tend to over analyze things (regardless of intelligence) not being as socially adept, though.
     
  23. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    you only need to analyze that which you do not understand.




    edit: ok, ill stop now till someone else comes up with something decent
     
  24. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    All I'm reading here is that you're a typical woman who can't make up her mind. :hsughr:

    :p
     
  25. Jimeigh

    Jimeigh Every rook and jay in the corvidae have been raven

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    ah. i think one might find this is true for a lot of people who frequent online message boards like this one.
     

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