Why I didn't like T3.

Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by INFERNO2K, Jul 5, 2003.

  1. INFERNO2K

    INFERNO2K Made in China

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    My expectations, as to what it would amount to, were met. I didn't like it. Proove me wrong OT.


    *** Spoilers ***


    The Cameron written/directed Terminator movies were not about the Future War. They were about how people living today would react with the knowledge that the Future War was going to happen.

    Molstow made a movie to show off some cool actions sequences and tied it together with some weak story writing in order to relaunch Schwartzenneger's career. Some of my complaints:

    1. The TX (Terminatrix) is presented as the ultimate killing machine (made to kill other terminators, according to the T-800 in this movie). In the beginning of the movie, to heighten the suspense and intensity, the TX is invincible and invulnerable. She is hit with a truck and survives. She is run over by a multi-ton crane and walks out un-impeded. Nothing the T-800 does to stop her is effect... nothing. However, at the end of the movie, she basically cut in half by a helicopter crashing on her. This does not fit together with the image we are given of her at the beginning of the movie. This inconsistency is just outright poor storytelling.

    2. Destiny v. Free Will. Terminator 2 squarely fell into the Free Will category. Molstow changed it all up. Guess what? It doesn't matter that John, Sarah, the T-800, and Miles Bennent Dyson destroyed all the AI research being conducted by Cyberdyne. It doesn't matter that Cameron argues at the end of T2 that the Future is NOT set and we have no fate but what we make for ourselves. Ya know why? Because, according to the T-800 in T3, certain events in history cannot be stopped, they can only be pushed back. Now, instead of Skynet being a hardware based AI unit built by Cyberdyne, it is an AI computer virus created by some secret US Military R&D lab (which just also happened to invent tank and flying Hunter-Killers). Hell, the beginning of the movie opens with John Conner reciting his epic statement, "We have no fate but what we make for ourselves." Cameron used this statement to reinforce the idea that humans are not pre-destined to do certain things but that we have free will over our lives. If the Terminator stories are trying to sell you something, THAT is what it is trying to sell you... until you get to T3, and destiny overcomes all.

    3. John Conner is a California boy... born and raised in SoCal. John, however, now has a nice NYC accent.

    4. John Conner, who was already beginning to display the epic leadership qualities, even in T2 at 10 years old, is now a lifeless drifter who basically wants to die. He contemplates suicide several times in this movie.

    5. T3 takes the storyline from T2 and basically recycles it. A group of three people go to contact the man who is directly responsable for the creation of Skynet. In T2, the guy dies and his death is tragic because of what Dyson was trying to accomplish (build an AI) and what he eventually had to do (destroy his life's work in order to save humanity). In T3, the death of the General is a throw-away death. Him dying means NOTHING to the main characters. Even his daughter only sheds a tear for a second. Again, bad writing.

    6. What exactly is the TX again? And where did it come from? In T1, Kyle Reese makes it clear that Skynet was smashed and that the Time Displacement machinery was captured by the Human Resistence, and that Skynet sent back a Terminator as a last ditch effort to keep itself from being destoyed. (T2 expanded on this by saying that Skynet actually sent two Terminators back through time, and the reason Reese didn't mention this in T1 was becasue he wasn't aware of the second Terminator.) Apparently, Skynet can now send back all the Terminators it wants. And since Arnold already destroyed a liquid metal Terminator... lets make a robotic Terminator with liquid metal, instead of flesh, for skin.

    7. Just a couple of short hours after her finance is killed, the Claire Danes character is beinning to fall in love with John Conner. Nice. I hope I am never engaged to a woman whose attentions can drift so easily.

    8. Terminators are infiltration units. They are designed to kill by stealth. The TX doesn't follow this line of thinking... she destroys as much as she can as often as she can. And she doesn't care who is watching.

    9. Remote controlled police cars? Please.

    I just don't think that there is much plot or story to this movie. It totally changed the "history" established in the first two films and didn't attempt to build on the dramatic themes established in the first two films. While many people go to movies for an escapist fling and fun, I go to movies and view them as an art form (generally). In my dramatic movies (and in my mind, Science Fiction is just an extension of drama), I want to see elements of the human condition revealed to me. I don't feel that T3 did that in the least.
     
  2. INFERNO2K

    INFERNO2K Made in China

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    Oh another thing that bugged me

    Excuse me, he says T101 model 800s have 2 power cells, one goes boom earlier, and he blows the TX with the other, how exactly does he continue to hold the door up AND grab/pull the TX back with BOTH power cells removed? Woops

    ibHollywood
     
  3. Homan

    Homan Unconquerable OT Supporter

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    1. She doesn't get cut in half, she was trapped under the helicopter and decided to cut herself in half in order to persue john connor

    2. Agreed, they just needed somethign to make this 3rd movie, but I think they did a good job presenting the paradox, how even if you know the future you cannot change it

    3. Bah

    4. Agreed, he could have been presented much better, perhaps show him in the army or more skillful/less cowardly.

    5. Agreed

    6. Agreed

    7. Her life completely changed in those few hours tho, knowing who she really is and what really will happen

    8. agreed

    9 agreed
     
  4. Homan

    Homan Unconquerable OT Supporter

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    Yeah that's what I was thinking, maybe some backup power? :dunno:
     
  5. Fuh-Q

    Fuh-Q Guest

    well, to answer your first problem, i think the scene where she was owned by the magnetic pull in the particle accelerator ended her invincibility
     
  6. MADIZM

    MADIZM Your mother sux cocks in hell

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    Plus, the beginning shows she is not certain that she loves him or wants to marry him. Wants her father to make the decision for her.
     
  7. MADIZM

    MADIZM Your mother sux cocks in hell

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    What parts did he contemplate suicide? I only remember the part where he puts the gun to his head to convince arnold to help save the father.
     
  8. Fuh-Q

    Fuh-Q Guest

    you consider the first Terminator art?

    ...:ugh:

    James Cameron is not a brilliant director, nor is he a brilliant writer. he mostly makes movies for the masses. and, in case you didn't know, the first terminator originally had a depressing ending about inevitable fate (i think), but during test screens the audiences didn't like it, so it was changed :down:
     
  9. Homan

    Homan Unconquerable OT Supporter

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    I think when he was at the bridge drinking beer
     
  10. Down623

    Down623 What's the Catch?

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    Motherfucking word. None of the people that made T1 and T2 great were back. I thought it sucked ass. Claire Danes was awful in it. Jesus, every word she said sounded so forced. Arnold's one-liners were so fucking gay. Of course, everyone in the theater bursts out laughing when he says "I cannot comply" to Danes when she says "Go fuck yourself." or whatever it is she said :rolleyes: Please. Jesus Christ, and these things didn't have anything to do with the plot, which, as you've pointed out, was fundamentally flawed. Should've stopped at T2.

    This movie didn't even have the little cool things from T2. One scene that will always ALWAYS stand out in my mind is from the insane asylum (I think?) When the T-1000 turns into liquid and moves through the bars, then you hear a clink, and he has to stop and turn his handgun sideways. Little things like that always fucking get me. Where was this stuff? Hidden below destroying the city with a crane. Goddamn, what happened to good moviemaking?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2003
  11. Rush

    Rush Butch > Tomash

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    i thought the crane scene although neat, was very long and drawn out. And at the end...i could tell the fall out shelter was run down...but the computer they entered access codes was modern..wtf?
     
  12. ParTyBoy

    ParTyBoy New Member

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    I'm actually surprised other OT'ers noticed the missing details as well.. It's unfortunate so many people are entertained by simple minded script writing/directing and can't appreciate a good story (Hulk) etc even if there are some slow moments..
    Nice thread INFERNO2K...
     
  13. T-T

    T-T Born Into Retirement

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    1) The TX was severely weakened by the particle-accelerator incident.

    2) This is just a conflict theme to add to the plot.

    3) So he has the wrong accent? And the organic cyber-killers are pretty real huh?

    4) He never contemplates suicide. Rather, he contemplates his role with regards to his fate. See your previous point 2.

    5) The two stories are similar, but have very different endings and character developments.

    6) I don't see what you're trying to get at with this point.

    7) Women are crazy.

    8) Terminators are meant to kill. It's not subtle, but it's not sloppy either. It is destruction and termination, not infiltration and insertion.

    9) Futuristic robot killers? Please.
     
  14. BaZ

    BaZ 2004 ACC Champions

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    :mb:

    and yet T3 is still one of the coolest movies ive ever seen
     
  15. 777

    777 New Member

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    many good points but I was confused about something in T3. John originally thinks it's the same terminator with the same memory as the one in T2 but Arnold tells him that he is a different one. To which John says, I'm going to have to teach him all over again.
    So why does arnold want to have 0 human casualties and better yet when he first transported back, how did he know to look in the visor of the truck to find the keys?
     
  16. chlywly

    chlywly Active Member

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    T3 was in no way T3, it was like T2(b)

    Bad humour, No suspense, No script, No progression, No story line, NOTHING except action......... Thats not what Terminator series is :(
     
  17. jae

    jae New Member

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    i fell asleep at T3. it was boring me out too much
     
  18. Down623

    Down623 What's the Catch?

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    Mutherfucking :werd: I noticed that too at the time, but totally forgot about it.
     
  19. MDPE

    MDPE New Member

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    Because after killing John in the future he is reprogrammed. :slap:
     
  20. D-FENS

    D-FENS New Member

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    an jhon says in the beggining that he was 13 when t-1000 was set to striek at him, even thought the computer in the cop car that t-1000 takes says john is 10, and even if that was wrong, the oldest he could have been was 12, because he was born in 1985(sarah got pregnant in 1984), and the war is in 1997
     
  21. SS109

    SS109 3100 FPS OT Supporter

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    I thought it was a fun movie, but not great art. I think it was also like Matrix 2, just getting you ready for Terminator 4.
     
  22. hertzy

    hertzy Guest

    lotsa shit blowing up, funny take offs from t2...that star glasses thing and the gay stripper. Too cute.

    Great visuals, weak plot and Claire Danes couldn't act her way out of a paper bag. Someone has to say it.

    Not a great movie but leaps and bounds above 28 days.
     
  23. hertzy

    hertzy Guest

    :bigok: Damn straight she is but even when she was in her drawers in MOD SQUAD (remember that POS) It still didn't help the movie one bit.

    Worst actress ever.
     
  24. hertzy

    hertzy Guest

    OK OK Pam Anderson notwhithstanding.
     
  25. Down623

    Down623 What's the Catch?

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    Right. I don't laugh at unfunny stuff. I must have no sense of humor. :rolleyes:
     

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