Which SSD solution should I go with?

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by ZCP M3, Jun 30, 2009.

  1. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    Well a buddy of mine let me borrow some SSDs (4x30GB Vertex and 2x64GB X25-E to be specific) and now it's time to swap my Velociraptor out for some sort of SSD solution.

    Which would you go with? Three 30GB Vertex's in RAID 0 ($360 total), a single 120GB Vertex ($375), or a single 80GB Intel X25-M ($315)?

    Keep in mind this is only for my system. All my other data is stored on 1TB & 1.5TB drives.
     
  2. Fase

    Fase Your Face, In A Pickle Jar.

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    Depends all on my budget etc.
    But I'd go with 1x Intel X25-M 80 gig.
     
  3. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    Budget is under $400 and I have space for 4 2.5" drives. Why would you pick a single drive over three? According to this website it seems like 3 Vertex's are the way to go for speed. http://www.barefeats.com/hard118.html

    These are going in a Mac Pro and all will be backed up via Time Machine so I'm not worried about the lack of redundancy. I want pure speed.
     
  4. OniMinion

    OniMinion ...recalls when this forum was actually about cars OT Supporter

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    DO NOT RAID SSHD's!!!! They do NOT work like old HD's. DO NOT DE-FRAG SSHD's EITHER!!!! If your friend put his SSHD's in raid he is an idiot.

    The best drive is the Intel X-25E for performance. They just released new firmware about 2 months ago, and they kill other's in performance/cost ratio as a result.
     
  5. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    :hsugh: to 99% of that post.

    Pretty sure people have been running SSD's in RAID for a while now and all the new chipsets in the X25's and Vertex's are RAID 0 friendly. And I already knew about not defragging SSD's.

    I understand that X-25E is by far the best for performance, but it's limiting for space. My $400 would get me a single 32GB X25-E. That's not nearly enough space for OS X, XP SP2 in a VM, my OS X programs, and scratch space for Lightroom/CS4 work. And any of the above will be faster than my single Velociraptor.
     
  6. OniMinion

    OniMinion ...recalls when this forum was actually about cars OT Supporter

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    Right, so stick with the Velociraptor for now. You don't need the SSHD.
     
  7. Fase

    Fase Your Face, In A Pickle Jar.

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    You can RAID SSDs just fine...
    Defrag does nothing to them performance wise, and the write/read from the defrag will only result in a shorter lifespan.
     
  8. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    I didn't *need* the VR either. I liked the performance increase from the stock drive and want to go faster. I'm choosing to buy faster drives.

    Anyone have any helpful input? From a bit of research it seems the MacPro hits a wall around 750MB/s of throughput, meaning that three Vertex's will saturate the channel and I'll have much more space than any Intel offerings.
     
  9. Fase

    Fase Your Face, In A Pickle Jar.

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    RAID0 with 3x SSDs would make me nervous for losing my data, even if it's all backed up it's a bitch to reinstall.
    3x SSDs will consume more power from the power supply.

    Intel X25 SSD is only 1 so you can say RAID0 that with another drive in several months if/when they get cheap and on sale. It's also more expandable since any upgrade to the 3x RAID would pretty much require scrapping it.

    The X25 are much faster than other SSDs, but a RAID0 with 3 drives vs 1x X25 I don't know how much faster the RAID will be or if you'll even notice for what you'd be doing.

    I'd go with the X25 as stated previously.

    My 2 cents.
     
  10. Doomsday

    Doomsday XXX

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    yeah, +1 on a single X-25
    no hassle with RAID and less clutter (takes single drive slot, power cables, etc)
     
  11. lowfat

    lowfat 24/Mac/SciFi/PC Crew OT Supporter

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    I also suggest a single X25-M. And I've done them all (X25-M, 2 * X25-M RAID0, 30GB Vertex, 120GB Vertex, 4 * Patriot Warp V2 RAID0).
     
  12. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    I would agree with the do not RAID SSDs comment to a certain point: don't RAID SSDs unless you have a VERY GOOD QUALITY RAID controller. Usually you'll want something that is designed to support SAS instead of just a SATA RAID controller.

    As long as the controller is good you should be fine running RAID 0, 1, 5, or 10. For pure speed you'll obviously want to run RAID0.

    There's no point to defragging an SSD.
     
  13. Cock Diesel

    Cock Diesel New Member

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    Very interesting to someone who has yet to try out SSHDs. I was hoping to get my hands on a X-25, especially if they are out with 120GB or bigger.
     
  14. lowfat

    lowfat 24/Mac/SciFi/PC Crew OT Supporter

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    Not true unless you are using cheap SSD's w/ the Jmicron JM602 controller. ICH8/9/10R are great controllers for SSDs. And almost all hardware SATA 3gbps controllers handle SSD's better than SAS.
     
  15. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    Defragging is designed to relocate data so that the heads on the hard drive don't have to seek as much, reducing latency and increasing performance. The reason why defragging is pointless on SSD's is because they have 0ms latency. All that moving of data will just decrease the life of the drive.

    That being said, it has been shown that writing 0's over the spaces that have deleted data on them will keep the MLC-chipped SSDs from slowing down once filled.
     
  16. lowfat

    lowfat 24/Mac/SciFi/PC Crew OT Supporter

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    Not correct. Defragging does not work on an SDD, because it doesn't use a true LBA (logical block address). When defragging, the OS determines where the data on the HDD is via the LBA. But SSD's only simulates an LBA for compatibility. So the OS has no way to tell where the data on the SSD is actually is. So it is just moving data around, but not in any proper order.

    And writing zero's to an SSD is an AWFUL thing to do. Causing unnecessary writes to the drive as well as filling all the cells on the drive. This will without a doubt cause the system to be considerably slower. On some cases like with the X25-M, it will take months to recover from something like this without the cell being properly erased (HDD Erase 3.30).
     
  17. Fase

    Fase Your Face, In A Pickle Jar.

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    Why would having a zeroed cell cause the system to slow down? :confused:
     
  18. lowfat

    lowfat 24/Mac/SciFi/PC Crew OT Supporter

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    because you are writing zeros to the cell. Not erasing the cell. Once a cell is full it takes twice as long to write to it since it needs to copy the data to the cache, erase the cell, then rewrite to the cell.
     
  19. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    I mis-spoke then. The tools available from Intel or OCZ erase the cells that no longer contain data to keep the drive's speed high, not write 0's to them.

    That being said, the 3 borrowed 30GB Vertex's I have in here now in a RAID 0 are reallllly fucking fast.
     
  20. Doomsday

    Doomsday XXX

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    so you are going against everyone's advice then? :rofl:
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2009
  21. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    I've got 4 30GB Vertex's and 2 64GB X25-E's that my friend let me borrow. I just benchmarked a 1x300GB Velociraptor, 3x30GB Vertex RAID 0, and a 1x64GB X25-E setup...

    300GB Velociraptor
    [​IMG]

    64GB X25-E
    [​IMG]

    3x30GB Vertex RAID 0 (OS X software)
    [​IMG]



    It's pretty clear the 3x30GB's are way faster than the single X25-E. The system boots in 4 seconds and even huge apps like PS CS4 open almost instantaneously. If you can afford the cut in storage space there is a HUGE performance benefit to running these things!

    But I'm going to wait for Intel's announcement of their new 32nm SSD drives in the next week or two before I make a purchase.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2009
  22. lowfat

    lowfat 24/Mac/SciFi/PC Crew OT Supporter

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    Not really. RAID adds almost zero benefit to actual real world tasks. The only two things that you should look at that test are the random 4k read/writes. The X25-E STOMPS the 3 x Vertex. I bet the 4k IOPS on the X25-E also trounces the 3 x Vertex.
     
  23. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    The new OCZ Vertex SSDs have firmware that the guy from AnandTech helped spec-out, so needless to say he approves of them. They're not as fast as Intel's drives, but they don't hang like cheap SSDs do and they're still reasonably fast -- hell, any SSD will give you crazy random-access times.

    The BS about not defragging SSDs is just that: BS. No, it isn't necessary to improve hardware performance, and yes, it does eat into the lifetime of the drive, but defragging a couple of times a year is still a good idea to keep the filesystem healthy and to keep Windows from wasting CPU cycles trying to keep track of the massive number of file fragments it will have to ask for whenever it wants to read a file. You'll never notice the decrease in longevity unless you run a database server anyway, because the MTBF for high-quality FLASH memory is several years of continuous 100% utilization -- no normal user will ever come close to that.
     
  24. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    Even if the majority of work I'll be doing is in LightRoom with 20MB RAW files from a 5D Mark II?
     
  25. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    And for those who are wondering, the Vertex's do have the latest firmware installed on them.
     

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