Where did christophers lose fat sticky go?

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by C4, Oct 4, 2005.

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  1. C4

    C4 OT OG Aussie #1

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    I need to start cutting as i reached my weight goal this week, and i now have a fat gut :noes:

    I remember that thread was extremely useful :(
     
  2. Filmboy44

    Filmboy44 Guest

    archives?
     
  3. MaineSucks

    MaineSucks OT Supporter

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    deleted - when ceaze and him split they deleted the information

    sucks, there was a wealth of information in that thread
     
  4. Riot

    Riot OT Supporter

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    the important parts were:

    diet
    11-12x body weight in calories
    1.5gx body weight in protein
    when you hit a plateu after a couple months, take 2 weeks off and eat @ maintenance

    training:
    lift heavier weights w/ lower volume
    optional moderate intensity cardio, 30mins 3x week

    that's all i can remember off the top of my head
     
  5. jonno

    jonno New Member

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    he ate it
     
  6. deznutz

    deznutz New Member

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    :eek3: They left...Wow...
     
  7. uf20wop

    uf20wop OT Supporter

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    i miss him :wtc:
     
  8. sex_xer

    sex_xer fuck you 2by2!

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    this?


    Fat loss 101

    Losing fat is the easiest physiological process of all. It's very simple and straight forward, it will also be the most challenging for a majority of the population. Let's begin with the most important aspect of fat loss, calories. A note about calorie calculators: They suck. They are NOT meant to be followed exactly. In fact, for the most part, they actually do suck. For example, for me a lot of calculators give me 4000 calories to diet on. This is the same for a lot of people. One must realize that any calories given in ANY article, including this newbie thread, are STARTING POINTS. You MUST re-assess weekly or every 2 weeks.

    Another note - the goal of losing fat should be 1-2 lbs a week. Anymore than this, unless assisted or obese, and you will be losing muscle in the process.

    First, the basics:

    Calories: Set calories to begin with at 11 to 12 times your bodyweight. This means if you weigh 200 pounds, eat 2200 to 2400 calories per day to start.

    Protein: Set protein at 1-1.5g per pounds of bodyweight. More is not neccesarily better, but it does not hurt. I personally diet on 1.5g per pound of bodyweight. Protein is THE most important macronutrient during a diet. It is also the macronutrient that will most favorably change body composition.

    Fat: Set fat at 25% of total calories. One can stress about the ratios of fat, but a good, general way to get adequate fat is to simply eat some eggs, lean red meat, take 3-6g of fish oil, and take some olive or flax oil.

    Now, for the individual part. The rest of the diet needs to be filled based on what you think you'll do well on. In general, those who feel great on low carbs feel like shit on a more carb based diet, and vice versa.

    If you've never dieted before: Fill the rest of the diet up with carbohydrates. This ensures a basic, straightforward, balanced diet that allows you to assess on what you'll do better on. Note: there is no physiological difference in fat loss between a carb based diet vs. a low carb diet.

    If you know what you're doing, fill the rest of the diet up with what you know you'll do better on. This could be all fat, a mix of carbs/fat, etc.

    It is very important to take a break off dieting for 2 weeks every 4-6 weeks of dietng. The fatter you are the more you can diet without a break. A general guideline would be: 15% and below - 2 week break after every 4-6 weeks of dieting. 20-25% - 2 week break every 6-10 weeks of dieting. 30% and above - 2 week break after every 8-12 weeks of dieting.

    Specific diet articles

    These are articles or diets that I "approve" of. None are magic, but they all work if you follow them.

    1) The Baseline Diet PT 1 - Lyle Mcdonald The Baseline Diet PT 2 This series should be read by all.

    2) T-Dawg version 2 - NOTE: This is a "fancy" name and article for what is essentially a Targetted Ketogenic Diet (TKD). Ignore the recommendations for their product and it's a basic diet. Another way to do this is just to simply eat low carbs throughout the day and eat pre/post workout carbs, anywhere from 50-100g. This is a TKD.

    3) The Winning Formula PT 1 The Winning Formula PT 2 - This is a great series of articles for someone new to fat loss or someone just wanting to get in "shape". It has a higher caloric recommendation than normal due to the fact that you are doing a assload of activity.

    4) 7 Habits of Highly Effective Nutritional Programs - This is a great article that covers the basics. While you do not need to follow every inkling of this, it's a good thing to shoot for.

    5) CKD - Read about the ever-so-popular Cyclical Kegotenic Diet here.

    6) Practical Cheating - Joel Marions take on dieting with "cheating"/overfeeding.

    7) The Don't Diet Plan - This is a general "diet" that emphasizes on very clean eating, increased activity, but not drastically decreased calories. This is a good diet for people that have fast metabolisms.

    8) PSMF - I can sum this up in 1 word: hell. It's simply setting protein at 1-1.5g/lbm depending on activity, some fiborous veggies, and 6 fish oil pills a day. This takes calories to roughly 1000-1300 for most people. Basically, the medical community looked at ways to get obese people losing fat as fast as possible without much muscle loss. They found out that loading up on protein but NOTHING else worked best. Thus, the Protein Sparring Modified Fast. This is NOT a diet for beginners, and it should not be used for periods more than 8-14 days without some sort of planned refeed. The fat loss is fast, and significant, however it's very hard to stick to as you are basically on starvation calories.

    Training for Fat Loss

    This is where many people make mistakes. The current trend is to use high repetitions, low weight, and low rest intervals. The logic behind this is varied, but it is consequently all skewed. For some, they just feel it burns more calories - which it does. For others, they believe the short rest periods - thus increase in Growth Hormone, is beneficial. The error is simply in the fact that in the real world, caloric deficit + low weigts used during training = muscle loss. The purpose of strength training while dieting is to retain muscle and strength, not to stimulate fat loss.

    Regarding the GH theory:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Christian Thibaudeau
    Their logic, as we saw earlier, is that this form of training increases growth hormone output. Since GH is a lipolytic (increases fat usage) hormone, they argue that a training method leading to an increase in growth hormone production will naturally lead to a significantly higher fat utilization.

    This theory is interesting, however, in the real world it's just not that effective. Why? Consider that when a bodybuilder injects human growth hormone, a minimum dose of 2 to 4 IU's per day for at least three months is required to produce noticeable changes. Many bodybuilders even argue that below 4 IU per day is useless for body composition purposes.

    The medical dose recommended for growth hormone is around 0.20 to 0.5 IU/kg per day, so for a 90kg individual (200 pounds) this equates to a daily dose of 2.6 to 6.5 IU. And this is for medical use, which is often too low to cause any "bodybuilding" results.

    As a comparison, the body's natural production of GH varies from 1 IU to 2 IU per day (so maybe 0.25 to 0.5 IU during exercise). So it’s unlikely that the slight, transient increase in growth hormone levels from strength training would cause any significant short term improvements in body composition.


    So, with this in mind, what should you do while dieting? Lower volume, up intensity, train with as heavy weight as possible. Do NOT look to lifting for fat loss. Allow diet and energy system work to take care of that.

    Here are some rules, from Christian's article found HERE.

    1. Use mostly compound (multi-joint and multi-muscle) exercises.

    When consuming a hypocaloric diet, you can't use a very large training volume, so you should use exercises that'll get you the biggest bang for your buck. Isolation exercises can be used at the end of a workout to work on a specific weakness, but only do the bare minimum.

    A good rule of thumb is to use lifts that will allow you to use the most weight. These will have a systemic effect on your body that'll help maintain or increase your muscle mass in this time of need. So focus on squats, deadlifts, various presses, rows and even some Olympic lifts if you know how to perform them.

    2. Use a low volume of training.

    During a fat loss diet your body has a lowered capacity to recover from physical work. This can't adapt very well to a high volume of training. Your sessions shouldn't last more than an hour, 30 to 45 minutes being best. Try to use only three to five exercises per session (three if you train only one muscle group on that day, four or five if you train two muscle groups) for three or four work sets each.

    3. Train at a high level of intensity.

    Your training load should be between 4 to 8 RM (reps max). You're basically performing sets of 4 to 8 reps, working close to failure (one rep short) on the first two work sets and to failure on the last one. I don't suggest working to failure on all three sets in this particular situation.

    4. Rest long enough to perform at your best.

    You're training to build muscle. If you have to lower the weights you use from set to set, you’re not resting long enough!

    A good way to estimate when you should start your next set is your heart rate. When you feel that it’s slowing down to where it was before the first set, you can go. Normally we’re talking around two to three minutes. Some might be able to handle as little as 60 to 90 seconds, but it’s better to start higher and decrease the rest period, provided that you can maintain performance level.

    5. Control the negative and explode with the positive.

    The eccentric (lowering) phase should be performed in a controlled manner (3-4 seconds) while the concentric (lifting) portion should be performed explosively. This will maximize force production and place a larger adaptive stimulus on the fast-twitch motor units, which have a more important growth potential.

    6. Training frequency should be three or four times per week.

    If you’re trying to lose fat, chances are that you’ll be performing some form of energy systems work (ESW) or "cardio." Simply put, when you're dieting down you should try to avoid doing both ESW and strength training on the same day (except for a ten minute, slow pace warm-up before your strength session if needed).

    Remember that your body has a lowered adaptive capacity when on a fat loss diet, so doing too much physical work will lead to some muscle loss.

    7. Limit advanced techniques.

    You can use some advanced techniques such as tempo contrast and iso-dynamic contrast as long as the intensity (training weight) is high enough. But don't perform too much of this type of work as it’s very demanding on the body.

    8. Supersets are okay.

    Supersets can also be used as long as the intensity is high enough. But if you perform a superset, don’t forget to count it as two exercises, not just one.

    9. Go heavier.

    Try to increase the weights you use at all costs (but not at the expense of proper form). Increasing the training load is the best way to tell your body to keep its muscles!

    Take home note: train heavy, hard, and lower volume while dieting

    Energy System Work/"Cardio"

    This is another individual thing, but for the most part anybody seeking fat loss should do some form of cardio. The health benefits are numerous and it's essential for most people to getting lean.

    1) The biggest trend in this area right now is HIIT, which stands for high intensity interval training. I believe that too many people take HIIT as the word of God, and overdo themselves. One must be in good shape to even contemplate properly doing HIIT. The best article regarding HIIT and other interval based cardio regimens is Running Man by Christian Thib.

    2) A balance is best IMO. For example, if you plan to do Cardio 4 times a week - 2-3 low intensity, standard cardio sessions of:

    -Walking
    -Incline Walking
    -Jogging
    -Biking
    -Sled Dragging
    -etc

    And 1 session of interval based cardio is best. The above mentioned are not taxing to the CNS or musculature, but interval work is, and can easily take one to overtraining while dieting if overused.

    In general, anywhere from 2-5 sessions of cardio per week will be ideal for most people. Yes, it's a large range, and it's up to you to figure out what works best.

    What to Eat

    This is simple. Eat good foods.

    Protein:

    * Fish: Salmon, Tuna, Cod
    * Eggs
    * Chicken breasts
    * Cottage cheese
    * Milk protien isolates
    * Whey-casein blends
    * Lean Red Meat

    Carbohydrates:

    * Vegetables
    * Mixed beans
    * Low-GI fruits
    * Oatmeal/Oat bran
    * Mixed-grain bread
    * Small amounts of protein-enriched pasta

    Fats:

    * Flax oil
    * EPA/DHA
    * Olive oil
    * Mixed nuts
    * Fish oil

    Foods to Avoid

    Proteins:

    * Fatty meats
    * Fatty dairy
    * Most lunch meat
    * Large amounts of milk
    * Large amounts of soy

    Carbohydrates:

    * Regular bread
    * Added sugar
    * Most cereals
    * Soda
    * Fruit juice
    * Bagels
    * Fruit bars
    * Candy

    Fats:

    * Margarine
    * Vegetable oil
    * Corn oil
    * Heated/fried oil

    Take home note:

    Fat loss is mostly about diet. One cannot ignore diet when attempting to lose fat. It is a process that simply cannot be avoided. Training is also important, as is cardio. Everything works together when attempting to lose fat. Weight training prevents muscle loss, cardio influences fat loss, diet dictates if fat is actually lost or not. Either way you slice it, it's not easy. Accept that and you'll be on your way.


    i had it saved.
     
  9. C4

    C4 OT OG Aussie #1

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    excellent, thankyou guys! :)
     
  10. MaineSucks

    MaineSucks OT Supporter

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    well, they are still lurking

    but since F&N is going thru a shit cycle they peaced for a while. chris has been showing up lately
     
  11. leb

    leb OT Supporter

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    Those weight training guidelines.. I'm guessing they're still relatively the same whether we're bulking or cutting?
     
  12. MaineSucks

    MaineSucks OT Supporter

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    to a certain degree. you should always be using high weight, mid reps. Protein should always be a 1-1.5g/lb. Its changes from there, carb and calorie intake change depending on cutting/bulking and so would supplement choices

    training also changes up a bit when you are bulking b/c you arent in a caloric deficit
     
  13. leb

    leb OT Supporter

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    ________________________________________________________________
    4. Rest long enough to perform at your best.

    You're training to build muscle. If you have to lower the weights you use from set to set, you’re not resting long enough!

    A good way to estimate when you should start your next set is your heart rate. When you feel that it’s slowing down to where it was before the first set, you can go. Normally we’re talking around two to three minutes. Some might be able to handle as little as 60 to 90 seconds, but it’s better to start higher and decrease the rest period, provided that you can maintain performance level.

    5. Control the negative and explode with the positive.

    The eccentric (lowering) phase should be performed in a controlled manner (3-4 seconds) while the concentric (lifting) portion should be performed explosively. This will maximize force production and place a larger adaptive stimulus on the fast-twitch motor units, which have a more important growth potential.
    _______________________________________________________________

    Do these stay the same? I don't see how point 5 could change much, but I'm mostly wondering about the resting periods. Since I'm not in a caloric defecit, am I fine with 30 second rests?
     
  14. MaineSucks

    MaineSucks OT Supporter

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    its up to your body... 2-3 min rest is pretty much standard. Just go into the gym and try it out... you'll be surprised how much more you can lift with a good rest in between sets

    but yeah, those are general lifting guidelines, not fat loss specific
     
  15. Lasu

    Lasu 2.0

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