GUN What should I get for my first gun? [split from On Topic]

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by EYOB, Aug 29, 2009.

  1. EYOB

    EYOB Guest

    Oh, and what would you recommend for a first time gun buyer ?? I will most likely get one in a few months.


    [Split from thread in On Topic - Joe_Cool]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2009
  2. Pond Scum

    Pond Scum New Member

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    I recommend finding a friend with more than one handgun, or several firends and lett them take you to the range. Some people like 38s, some like 9mm, some like 40s and some like 45s.

    All have advantages and disadvantages. If you are going to get a CCW permit and carry your weapon, that should be considered as well and you might want to stick to a smaller size pistol. Do your own research. Most gun owners are more than happy to share their knowledge with you. Ask people you know who are responsible gun owners. Go shooting a few times before you buy. One of the most important things, after firearm safety, is to know all your local, state and federal laws.

    Police Departments in the U.S. use semi-automatic pistols in 9 milimeter, .40 S&W, .357 Sig, and .45 Auto. More than half of all police departments issue the Glock Handguns, more than 1,000 police departments issue the Beretta 92, 96, Cougar, and 8,000 model handguns, and other police departments issue Ruger, Smith and Wesson, Sig Sauer, Heckler and Koch, Browning, and Walther handguns. Just about every police department in the country has seen the advantages of the semi-automatic pistol over the revolver. The semi-automatic pistol generally holds more ammo, is faster to reload, and can deliver more firepower onto a threat than a revolver. Very few police departments in the U.S. still issue revolvers.

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070329180323AArVvUI

    Hope this helps. Remember, the fit of the gun in your hand is CRUCIAL.
     
  3. Jas0n

    Jas0n Антихрист

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    :ugh: I hope you're kidding.

    It's a tool. Get a tool that works, not one that feels good. You're not buying it to hold, you're buying it presumably to neutralize a threat.
     
  4. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    I went to Home Depot and picked up two or three different weighted hammers before I figured out which weight I wanted, then held and swung 5 or 6 in that weight to figure out which one was the most comfortable.

    Hopefully someone buying a gun does at least that much to figure out which "tool" is best for them, because how it feels in your hand is as important as any other factor when buying a gun.
     
  5. Jas0n

    Jas0n Антихрист

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    Say you're torn between a Hi Point and a Glock, because you know the Glock will fire reliably (one factor) but you like the way the Hi Point feels in your hand (another factor which you consider to be "as important" as the first). The Hi Point is going to be $300-400 cheaper, so is that what you'd seriously recommend someone buy in order to protect their home?


    Though I'd never advocate it as a requirement, nor advocate funding to support it through taxation, I think that gun control would be much less a controversial issue if people had some general knowledge and understanding about firearms in general. I wouldn't say that "how it feels in your hand is important!" is the most grievous error out there, but it seems like there are huge swaths of misunderstanding about firearms in general, and those misunderstanding seem to be at the root of most problems.
     
  6. 7960

    7960 New Member

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    I said it's AS important. In other words, it's a checkbox on the list of things I'd be looking at. If I'm using it to protect my home then it's unlikely I'd be putting 5k rounds through it, so "fire reliably" isn't really the issue you make it out to be. And also, if I'm using it to protect my home, that probably means I wouldn't be handling it every day, and when I did it would be in an emergency........so the last thing I'd want is something that feels uncomfortable when I picked it up for the first time in a month, at midnight, when someone just climbed through my window.
     
  7. Pond Scum

    Pond Scum New Member

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    OMG, How much evidence do I need?

    I will refrain from posting a mountain and instead only post a single piece. If you would like more, feel free to ask.

    Pierce County sheriff's deputies have carried the Sig Sauer 226 for 10 years. More than two yea ago, the department started issuing new deputies the Glock 17 because the weapon is smaller and fits the hands of more officers, spokesman Ed Troyer said.

    Tacoma began the process of replacing the Berettas last spring, when Jenkins and a committee of department officials started looking for a handgun to replace the Berettas.
    "We've been eating this, sleeping this and breathing this for 10 months," Jenkins said.
    The group began by collecting every handgun available to law enforcement - 37 different gun models from manufacturers all over the world. One of the group's guidelines was that "one gun doesn't fit all," Jenkins said.
    With the addition of more female and minority officers, officials recognized that officers have different-sized hands and strength in their fingers, factors that affect how well they shoot.
    The department heard complaints from officers who were having a hard time properly gripping and firing the Beretta, a large gun with a heavy trigger pull. When officers can't hold a gun properly because of its size, their confidence, control and ability to shoot accurately is reduced, officials said.
    Some officers' bodies couldn't properly absorb their gun's recoil when fired.
    "I hate this gun," said patrol officer Helen Coubra, tapping the Beretta in her holster. "I've never felt confident with this gun."
    The committee kept such comments in mind when evaluating the 37 gun models. Committee members also worked without limits about the type of gun they were interested in selecting, Jenkins said.
    With each model, officials measured the length between the trigger and the back of the grip to determine how easy the weapon was to hold and fire. They also looked at the width of the grip and also at how much strength it took to the pull the trigger.
    As part of the tests, more than a dozen officers of varying sizes test fired the guns, each of which went through scores of tests to gauge accuracy, safety and reliability.
    "These were all good guns," Jenkins said. "We wanted the one that fit the most people the best."



    http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/Tacoma_ProCarry.htm
     
  8. Pond Scum

    Pond Scum New Member

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    Yeah, that is why almost every person who gives tips on buying a handgun mentions how the piece FITS YOUR HAND.

    ////////////////

    1. Tips for choosing the right handgun for your needs - by Mumbly Joe ...

      The weapon needs to fit your hand. It should feel like a natural extension ... Tips or suggestions for buying a handgun. First and foremost, one should be ...
      www.helium.com/.../448494-tips-for-choosing-the-right-handgun-for-your-needs - Cached - Similar
    2. Buying A Handgun

      For more information pertaining to buying your first handgun the Orange County, ...... Find one that fits your hands and not one that fits my hands or your ..... move the finger tips of your weak hand closer to the knuckles of your ...
      www.craigcentral.com/handguns.asp - Cached - Similar
    3. BUYING YOUR FIRST GUN AND LEARNING HOW TO SHOOT.

      Basic handgun information about buying your first gun and learing how to ... The most important thing is that the gun fits your hand and you are able to use ...
      www.ocshooters.com/Hand/buyingyourfirstgun.htm - Cached - Similar
    4. Buying a Pistol

      Buying Tips ... Just like you wouldn't buy a pair of shoes that don't fit your feet, don't buy a pistol that doesn't fit your hand. It's as simple as that. ... Feel is very important and often overlooked when buying a handgun. ...
      www.pistolguru.com/buying-a-pistol.html - Cached - Similar
    5. Need Tips on Buying Used Handgun [Free Republic]

      Feb 17, 2001 ... Example: If you buy a grandfathered handgun sans paperwork and then apply for a ... Make sure the grips feel comfortable in your hand. .... and it's small enough to fit in a front pocket of dress pants...but not jeans. ...
      www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a8ac1354fb5.htm - Cached - Similar
    6. Choosing the Right Pistol - Part 2 | Austin Tactical Firearms

      In this issue we'll discuss how the gun should fit your hand by focusing primarily on proper grip. ... If you wear a small or medium consider buying a pistol that uses a single stack magazine (one bullet ... Categories : Tips & Tricks ...
      www.austintacticalfirearms.com/choosingpistol2 - Cached - Similar
    7. How to Choose a Handgun | eHow.com

      Here we will provide some steps that will make buying a handgun a simple ... After you find a handgun that you like and that fits your hand properly, ... Tips & Warnings. If more than one person is going to be using the same gun check ...
      www.ehow.com/how_2312725_choose-handgun-.html - Cached - Similar
    8. looking to buy a handgun (my first) ..need help! - Firearm & Gun ...

      Buy the first thing you can get your hands on, that way you have one when you can't buy a handgun any longer. Then, after securing the quick pick, ...
      www.firearmstalk.com/.../looking-buy-handgun-my-first-need-help-14810/ - Cached - Similar
    9. More bang for your buck: survival tips for buying used guns | Guns ...

      More bang for your buck: survival tips for buying used guns from Guns Magazine provided ... will teach you a thing or two about what to look for when buying used handguns. ... Holding the pistol in your hand, turn it over several times. ...
      findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is.../ai_98124193/ - Cached - Similar
    10. What kind of hand gun to buy? - Yahoo! Answers

      What kind of hand gun to buy? What is the best compact 9mm semi automatic pistol to buy .... Find one to fit your hand first, select the brand name second. ...
      answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid... - Cached - Similar
    JEESH!
     
  9. D-FENS

    D-FENS New Member

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    Well say you're torn between a Glock, Beretta, HK, Sig, and Springfield XD. All of those guns are reliable, accurate and well-built, so out of those, I would certainly go with what feels the most comfortable in my hands. I've held a Glock, I know they're good guns, but they just feel extremely awkward in my hands and I have my doubts that I'd be at my maximum effectiveness in a combat situation with such an uncomfortable grip.
    Of course if it's Glock vs. Hi-Point I'd take the Glock, but between several different reliable handguns, the grip/feel is definitely a major thing to consider in your decision.
     
  10. Jas0n

    Jas0n Антихрист

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    :rofl: So in other words, you really would recommend someone get a Hi Point over a Glock for home defense... on the grounds that since none of those few home-defending shots will probably be the one in a hundred or so that fails to eject and jams the gun. Wonderful. Just remember, as some thug is working a screwdriver through your kid's jugular - tap, rack, roll! (And you'll be doing it in marginally greater comfort!) :rolleyes:
     
  11. Erebos

    Erebos OT Supporter

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    Exactly. You don't want a piece of shit that feels great, but an otherwise great gun that feels awkward isn't the best choice either.
     
  12. Jas0n

    Jas0n Антихрист

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    For keeping in the nightstand you might get away with this. For carry, I'd take a Glock over any of them by a long shot, though an XD might be alright for a while (though it won't be pretty if you carry long-term), and a Sig would be okay if it's an older German-made model.

    None of the others would qualify because they're known to be significantly less-reliable when conditions are less than optimal. If your gun gets kicked across a gravel parking lot, will it still fire if you pick it up and pull the trigger? The Glock will, the H&K may not.


    Another thing people don't always consider is that there's a huge difference between holding a gun over the counter at Cabelas, and firing a thousand rounds through one. That Blackwater Sig P226 ($1200 or so) looks sexy, and feels it over the counter with those wood grips... but get that guy wet, and good luck keeping your hands on it.
     
  13. Jas0n

    Jas0n Антихрист

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    Fighting links with links:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
     
  14. Erebos

    Erebos OT Supporter

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    So you're saying that it's better to have a gun that feels awkward as fuck every time you fire it, rather than one that might jam one out of every 1000 rounds?
     
  15. Jas0n

    Jas0n Антихрист

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    This is absolutely the worst argument for a given gun I've seen in my life, and I'd be terrified that these are LEOs who are the victims, but it looks like their rangemaster may have stumbled upon the right answer.
     
  16. Jas0n

    Jas0n Антихрист

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    I'm saying that getting a tool that works is far more important than getting one that's comfy.

    Look. If it's just a range toy, get whatever the hell you want. I don't care one bit about that. For carry, certainly for duty, for home defense... this isn't something you're getting for enjoyment, you're getting it because your life and the life of your family depend on it. It seems like a really simple step in reasoning, then, to proceed from "our lives may depend on it" to the correct answer to the following question: what features are important? That correct answer is: functionality. Someone kicks down your door, the action will be over in a matter of seconds. I think you should be prepared to deal with minor discomfort for those few seconds and handle the threat.

    Furthermore, if your ability to handle a firearm is so limited that you would be unable to use the firearm properly without that like-a-glove fit... what you need is training, not a comfier firearm. In other words, if "comfort" has that much impact on your ability to use the tool, it's not likely to matter what you have, you aren't probably going to use it correctly anyway.
     
  17. Pond Scum

    Pond Scum New Member

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    When did he say anything about suggesting a HI Point?

    I have never fired a HI Point, but from the many, many reviews on handguns and comparisons, it seems the HI Point .45 is pretty good for the money. I did not research any of their other products, but when I researched my .45, I looked at ever make and I heard no negatives on the HI Point for reliability. Most of the complaints were about the feel of the gun, as it is large and bulky.

    I will only list one source, the SHooting times.

    http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/hipoint_100605/

    If you have any good articles, from good sources, claiming HI Point weapons are unreliable, please post them.
     
  18. Pond Scum

    Pond Scum New Member

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    You need help. If a person is not comfortable holding a handgun, they are probably not going to shoot well with it. Common sense. This applies to novices and beginners and not experienced shooters who need no advice.

    You say functionality is key and I agree, but after you bad mouthed HI Points without a shred of evidence to support your claims, I have to question your knowledge. It appears to me you simply don't like the HI Point because it ugly and inexpensive, never bothering to actually look for and read reviews on their products. The only problems i have heard about concerning reliability is jamming during the first 100 round break in period. Considering the weapons are 1/4 the price of most others, that seems like a problem I can live with.

    Please post any info on Hi Points being unreliable.
     
  19. Jas0n

    Jas0n Антихрист

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    First, he didn't suggest a Hi Point. I proposed a comfy Hi Point and a reliable Glock. For some reason he went on to suggest that if someone broke his window, he'd want to put his hands on something comfy, reliability being evidently at best a secondary interest.

    Second, I'm not sure why you'd ask me for links (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority for more on that) if you mean to find definitive proof. If we're to take those kinds of shoddy arguments seriously, my first argument would be directed toward the people who say "well I have one and mine's just fine!" - then follow that up by saying "I've fired all of five hundred whole rounds through it without any problem!" - as if five hundred rounds is any indication of reliability. Second argument would be my personal experiences as someone who has worked in the firearms industry for a few years now, seeing them fall apart in people's hands for no apparent reason (other than that they're stamped pot metal held together by spot welds). Third would be the lack of law enforcement contracts. Fourth would be the lack of significant torture tests (2500 rounds at the range isn't a torture test). I could probably go on.
     
  20. Jas0n

    Jas0n Антихрист

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    I know a lot of guys who are firearms-competent. They (and, for what it's worth, I) can pick up just about anything and shoot it reasonably well. It doesn't take much training to get to that point... it probably takes about as much training as it takes to be able to get a round into center mass at five yards, and know how you're doing it. (Some people manage to intuit that kind of marksmanship, but what's interesting is, those people have the WORST time actually improving their shooting, they resist training.)

    Those guys... these firearms-competent guys... they have their preferences based on their own body of research, their own set of priorities and biases, and I'm sure that at some point comfort becomes a factor. But that's the difference between a G17 and a G19, not the difference between a German-made P226 and a Jimenez JA-NINE.


    I'd like to add, furthermore, that for all these guns we could mention that don't populate trash-talk articles in magazines, we have a handful of weapons that are consistently praised... that stand up to these torture tests, that have long-standing well-maintained reputations for reliability. You have demanded that I prove something's unreliable... I'm thinking, you're looking at it from the wrong direction. There's no evidence at all to suggest that a Hi-Point can stand up to the same torture that an XD9 can, or that it can eat anywhere near as many rounds as a G17... and if reliability is your pursuit, you should look for those weapons which have proven that they are reliable, not expect people to prove to you what's not reliable. In other words, do not assume that all guns are great... assume they're crap, until proven otherwise. Remember, we're talking about something your life depends on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  21. Erebos

    Erebos OT Supporter

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    And isn't getting one that works and is comfy better than getting one that works but isn't?
     
  22. Jas0n

    Jas0n Антихрист

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    Sure. You just evidently have far, far looser standards for "works" than do I.
     
  23. Erebos

    Erebos OT Supporter

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    Sure, since your definition of "works" is evidently "made by Glock."
     
  24. Jas0n

    Jas0n Антихрист

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    That's certainly not in evidence. Maybe you didn't read the thread?
     
  25. Erebos

    Erebos OT Supporter

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    Sure I did. Did you? I didn't recommend any gun in particular, just that comfort should be a factor, so I don't know what you could base your suggestion that my standards are lower than yours on, unless your standards are incredibly narrow.
     

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