What exactly is 5X5 training?

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by lif, Dec 1, 2005.

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  1. lif

    lif New Member

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    I see everyone talking about it, but what is it exactly?

    I don't think its just 5X5 on every exercise is it?

    My understanding is that you do 5X5 on compound exercsises that you revolve your routines around, like Bench, Squat, Deadlift, Barbell Row, Barbell Curl, Close Grip Bench, etc.

    And after this you drop the weight for your other exercsises and do 3X6-8.

    Please correct me if im wrong, but i've never seen an article about it or anything like that, excuse me if its in the archives but i couldn't see it and can't search, obviously.
     
  2. G-n-P

    G-n-P New Member

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    that is pretty much it, it has a linear overload as well. Ask Super Bri he is an expert on the 5x5 method you know
     
  3. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

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    there's tons of different variations of it
     
  4. Phineas Q Stork

    Phineas Q Stork Active Member

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    :werd:

    the madcow and meso programs are cut and paste jobs on routines and posts that i wrote on other boards long ago.

    the reason there are so many "variations" is that this is really not a workout, but a general progression of training, starting off doing one thing and gradually changing the plan as the months/years go by to keep progress going. thats why you see some "versions" where you always pyramid up, some where you pyramid one day and not the other, some where you do straight sets every day as a load period then de-load. that isnt 3 different versions of a program, its all from the same program but looking at different stages of it.

    its annoying to me that people continue to cut and paste things i have written over the years, and present them as a stand alone program that is somehow magic. maybe i have given this impression and am to blame... certainly im sure none of these people mean any harm, and from what i hear the programs have been usefull to some.

    but no one program is magic, and it irks me when someone else comes along with a magic mix of sets and reps and claims that HE has discovered the BEST way to train, so it irks me when i feel like i am being set up, or at least some programs i have written are being set up, as doing that.

    it may be presumtuous to take on the mantle of the "5 by 5" all by myself, but since i cant find ANY thread about it anywhere that doesnt start with at least some cut and paste from something i wrote and maybe some reference to bill starr... and since i know bill and really most of the training "style" that i use originates with him... well because of that i think i can speak at least a little bit for the 5 by 5 program.

    this is NOT a stand alone program. Neither bill starr, rippetoe, or me ever intended to present one version of this "program". following the "5 by 5" as it has been called oddly enough doesnt even mean you have to always do sets of 5. what it is is a method of training simply, very simply and basically. starting out with little or no variation or periodization and little volume... and adding as years and months go by both volume and variation to your workouts.

    -stolen from another forum
     
  5. Phineas Q Stork

    Phineas Q Stork Active Member

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    Another tidbit that I found to be interesting. Doesn't pertain to this thread so much, but still a good read

    1. you are classified BY ME as a beginner, intermediate, or advanced depending on the amount of variation in your training you need to make progress. this is related to how long you have been training, but not neccessarily to how strong you are. some people are never, never going to bench more than 400lbs. is a person who has been training 10 years and has reached 99.9% of their genetic potential a beginner just becasue they are only benching 300lbs? no.

    2. the whole concept of beginner, intermediate, and advanced is based off of the following. a beginner can increase the weight on the bar almost every workout, doing the same thing. hundreds, thousands maybe, of beginners have come through WFAC in the past 20 years. all are taught to squat correctly. all can add at least 5lbs to their max set of 5 on the squat 1 or 2 times per week if the squat is done correctly for at least 2-3 months. most for 4-6 months. some for a year. if it is done correctly. this is without any variation in training at all. just adding 5lbs to the work set, and pushing them under the bar and making them do it.

    now think about it. is there any faster way to increase your strength than to simply increase the weight on the bar and do it for the same number of reps as you did a lesser weight the last workout? NO. so if you are capable of it, why not do it? most are capable of it for quite a few months after starting training. many, very many, are capable of it if properly motivated and coached after years of training incorrectly. if you are a "beginner" and are capable of this typ e of training, and are doing something more compicated, you are simply wasting time. why increase every 8 weeks when you could increase every training session? beginners should train very simply.

    for a beginner, changing the MEANS of training is more effecient than changing the planning... in other words, change to 5 singles, or 3 sets of 10, or whatever, and try to keep linear progress going before you start to get complicated. if you change the means of training, but keep the steady progression, you get faster progress than if yo change to some complicated periodized program that lets you do a new max every 12 weeks!

    we start beginners by working to one max set of 5 on monday and friday, with a lighter day on wednesday.

    before they try ANY periodization, they will switch to several different rep schemes to try to keep progress going.

    INTERMEDIATE is a person who can not progress this way any more. they will do several things. all involve short term "periodization" or altering the workouts so that they have varying stress levels over a week or over as much as a month. this type of p0erson will have by now experimented with several training means, all the way from multiple heavy singles, to speed work, and be doing sort term variation using a progression of training means. think of the westside dynamic day squat cycle, you know, something like 50% 10X2, 55% 10X8, 60% 10X6... think of the "pendlay" or whatever, jeez hated typing that, squat program fo doing 5 sets of 5 on monday, front squats on wednesday, and one max set of 5 on friday... not going much more into this becasue of the book coming out and the fact that i want everyone to have to pay $$$ for it, but thats an intermediate. a guy who can still make progress on a weekly or monthly basis with a little short term variation in their workouts.

    an ADVANCED guy is the one who has to plan for several months, even a year or more, for measurable progress. to make progress just by changing the training means, he would have to do something so off the wall that even though he was progressing on what he was doing, he would be detraining for the event he was traiing for. he requires long term planning. again, since i want $$$ from the book, im not going to go into more detail. although i feel like a stupic dumbass for even saying that. oh well, the house payment has to be made, and thats that.

    training is made too hard by too many people. its simply a matter of making the fastest progress you can, training int eh most specific way to you particular event that you can. variation is a trade-off. its nice to keep linear progression going as long as possible, increase from workout to workout. but when does the variation in training means required to do this become so great as to interfere with progress toward your specific goal? when and why should you change you level of planning, go to something more long-term instead of just doing speed squats instead of 5 by 5? or something like that.

    i dont recomend specific programs really... at least not so much. what i recomend is a long term outlook towards training. a step by step approach. in reality, a very simple approach.
     
  6. Leo95SE

    Leo95SE The OMINOUS one

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    sounds like something tate would write
     
  7. Phineas Q Stork

    Phineas Q Stork Active Member

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    If by Dave Tate, you mean Glenn Pendlay, then yes, you are correct
     
  8. Leo95SE

    Leo95SE The OMINOUS one

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    lol, exactly. :big grin:
     
  9. Phineas Q Stork

    Phineas Q Stork Active Member

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  10. Leo95SE

    Leo95SE The OMINOUS one

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  11. Marijuanair

    Marijuanair Remember to have your pet spayed or neutered! OT Supporter

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    I should read more but...

    Is the 5x5 something like, say on bench day, if your max is 250, instead of doing a progressive set building upto ~85% of your max you do 5 sets of X% of your max, say 165 for example?
     
  12. lif

    lif New Member

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    Thanks guys, this is what i've been looking for.

    What i've been doing is training for strength, keeping essentially all my exercsises at high sets, low reps, between (4-5)X(5-7)

    I've seen decent gains on all my exercises and am gaining ~10 lbs per exercise per two weeks of training, not too shabby i dont think :o
     
  13. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

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    THERE ARE TONS OF VARIATIONS TO 5X5

    lc
     
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