What does F&N think of this man's workout?

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by MyLittleAirport, May 26, 2006.

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  1. MyLittleAirport

    MyLittleAirport OT Supporter

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  2. PurEvl

    PurEvl going out gassed and not half assed...

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    meh...i do more machines in a circuit on zero carbs an no bodyfat...big deal. And i use a whole lot more weight. I bet chris or trance even cave good do that easy.
     
  3. MyLittleAirport

    MyLittleAirport OT Supporter

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    Serious? :noes:
     
  4. cavefish

    cavefish You ain't a crook son, you just a shook one

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    I think his "strength coach" is a dumbass and that his routine sucks.

    I'd be a little more impressed if he was doing a circuit with squats, clean and presses, power snatches, etc. I don't see how curling 30lbs is gonna do much for you...

    It's probably a good cardio workout but pretty useless for anything else. Also crazy ass volume and he looks pretty damn small in that video. But apparently he's a good fighter.

    I think that 1500 reps of anything would probably kill me though
     
  5. devman

    devman New Member

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    seems like he has to do some heavy lifting at some point also, that routine alone wouldnt build alot of strength
     
  6. cavefish

    cavefish You ain't a crook son, you just a shook one

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    Yeah but absolute strength isn't all that important in MMA it seems. Being able to squat 600lbs doesn't make you a good fighter.

    I just don't think the routine in that video is very optimal for anything.
     
  7. watagatapitusberry

    watagatapitusberry OT Supporter

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    i posted a vid of couture's workout a few weeks back, you could probably find it on google video. his is comprised of the same stuff, except he uses free weights and i think exclusively compoudn movements. while these routines dont really build strength, theyre hellluva a lot better for what they train for
     
  8. JustBlazin

    JustBlazin Ironic Punishment

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    1500 rep workouts are nothing as long as you take xyience extreme supplements
     
  9. Gutrat

    Gutrat "GET DOWN..."

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    animal paks? :noes:
     
  10. Perkwunos

    Perkwunos Dog Bones OT Supporter

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    That gym is sick, a shit ton of elite equipment monolift and such
     
  11. PreemO

    PreemO OT Supporter

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    overrated and pretty much pointless. it'd be smarter for him just to spar straight for 45 than this bullshit. you're only engaging a specific muscle group at periods of time, while in sparring its your entire body.
     
  12. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    I see every so often a MMA fighter training thread in F&N, and I frequent both the cage and F&N.


    My advice: do not mix the two.


    ANyways, on with discussion. That workout looks pretty lame (just a little too cardio intensive)... Couture's workout vid and Bas Rutten's workout vid are more realistic for MMA or martial arts in general.

    Couture takes a light weight bar (probably 80-120 lbs total) and does movements for maybe 10 reps quickly and consistently for a good 5 minutes (i think) switching them up every 30 seconds, and not stopping between movements at all, just going from one to the other. Each movement incorporates full body in some way. Legs and upper body and some midsection are all involved in most of the movements.

    Bas Rutten's is mostly calisthenics with things like bodyweight rows, dips, crunches, and then mixed in is shadowboxing. Again, he goes from one workout straight to the enxt without stopping, takes a minute off after something like 4 minutes of straight working out, then gets back to it for another 4 minutes, etc.

    The point is to simulate the pace of muscular and cardiocascular work that you would experience in the MMA ring when striking and especially grappling, which is heavy work that you'll be doing constantly, no breaks inbetween sets like weightlifting and sometimes you'll have to hold against someone elses resistence in the same position for a minute or longer... These are not things that strength training or bodybuilding prepares you for. This training will not get you a strength trainers or a bodybuilders strength maximal strength or appearance.

    The reason why Bas Rutten, Randy Couture, and other MMA fighters are seemingly large guys is probably because they train all day every day hitting bags, doing wrestling and grappling (if you don't believe that will get you bigger muscles, look at chechen, he's pretty muscular for a dude that doesn't work out in the gym), and I'm sure they pump their bodies full of supplements like creatine (unless they're cutting for a fight) and eat like athletes.

    If you do a 40 minutes lightweight weight training like these guys show in the videos, you will not look like them. If you want to look good, choose a bodybuilding or strength (in some cases) routine. If you want to be prepared for a ring fight, do what these fighters show in their videos. If you want to be a good fighter, keep taking classes, and do some practical training that fits your schedule and goals. If you're not going to fight in the ring and don't get into fights at the bar, try some strength training to gain some mass. If you just want to be a good fighter with a little extra strength and endurance, I reccomend do some basic calistenics to work each muscle group (maybe some mid-range weight for leg workouts since bodyweight isn't usually enough for them), and focus your training time more on praticing with a partner in sparring, rolling, and doing bag/pad work.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2006
  13. DCyamaha

    DCyamaha O-line found

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    too much muscle will fatigue you too fast in a fight.
     
  14. GOGZILLA

    GOGZILLA Double-Uranium Member

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    cosgrove's circuits are way better and way more tiring, theres no fucking way anyone could do those for an hour. all that shit they were doing is alot of isolation and machine work which i wouldnt think has much of a carry over
     
  15. JustBlazin

    JustBlazin Ironic Punishment

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    even more intense than animal paks :noes::noes:
     
  16. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    It all depends on the sport. Pure striking can be improved with things like strength training and the additional muscle mass fatigue resulting from such training can be countered by better cardio. Still, the most efficient fighters in striking arts are those who keep their weight in the middle range for their height. If you're 6'3" you'll be able to go longer at 200 than you will at 240 regardless of better conditioning (assuming that at 200 your conditioning was good to begin with, which as a fighter it should be). It should also be noted that some of the best kickboxers of today who use weights (Mike Zambidis for one) stop using them about three weeks before a fight, and stick to endurance stuff from then on, both to cut weight and to optimize endurance.


    For grappling the situation changes greatly. There's a reason why the worlds best ground fighters are mainly skinny or wirey guys. Maximal strength plays little role on the ground unless you're trying to pick someone up and slam them, which is quite inefficient technique when it comes to real fighting.


    I'll look into the stuff you posted about and get back about it.
     
  17. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    Reading Martin Rooneys articles ATM... sounds like a cheesey asshole trying to sell some shit.

    For the time being just let me say, the best way to train for something is by training in it. I see countless threads of people asking how to get better at running, bicycling, etc... The answer everybody gives them? Run more. Ride your bike more. Keep doing it.

    Fighting is no different. To gain optimal strength as a ring fighter, a striker should spend time hitting bags, shadowboxing, and sparring. As a ground fighter, the person should practice ground fighting.

    I don't think there will be anything useful in this article, but I'll continue reading for your amusement.


    Edit(s):

    So he's saying that you have to be properly prepared in nutrition, and a multitude of physical abilities.... Wow... real revolutionary :hsugh:

    It can be debated who is right and wrong, but I think that by saying you should becoming physically prepared for the sport before you fine tune your skills (learn and practice techniques) is total bull shit. The techniques take years to master, whereas you can transform your body in relatively little time in comparison. Same thing applies with the mastering of the mind. The inner self should be developed before any techniques are even learned. This is why most fighting styles have philosophies and traditions that are learned before practice begins, or as it is being taught... So that your head will be as prepared as your game is.

    okay now the guy is just babbling on about bull shit.

    for reference: http://www.realfighting.com/0503/mrooneyframe.html that's the one i was reading. If you have his e-book so I can actually check out his training program I'd love to look it over. Sounds like just another trainer who thinks his way is the right way.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2006
  18. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    You're forgetting the fact that those fighters were elite before he started training them.


    I have actually competed in boxing but yeah nothing near similar to MMA, which seems to be this guys hangup.

    Seriously though, you can read all the books you want... THousands of years of people wrestling and striking... There is nothing more to understand that could possibly prove beneficial enough to make a change in the sport.
     
  19. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    I'm not saying I know more than them. I'm simply saying that at a certain stage when you pitt two very skilled fighters against each other, it's more about technique and strategy than it is about a slight physical advantage.

    If you spend half your training time in the gym instead of on the mat or in the ring, then you will not be better than the guy who spends 90% of the time actually training his game. Top notch fighters keep their training simple and balanced. Look at Fedor Emelianenko, and then look at Mirko Crocop.
     
  20. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    Other examples would be Aleksander Emelianenko... Look at this guy... He looks like he's got high bf%, his conditioning is horrible, and he doesn't even use much other than his fists... Yet he's taken out many-an-opponent in MMA fights within the first minute. What's his secret? He's a fucking beast with a balls to the wall strategy that scares the shit out of his fighter. When it came down to it recently, Josh Barnett beat him, but not after a long battle standing up in which Aleks was faring extremely well. It was not until Barnett took it to the ground, where he is great and Aleks is weak, that he was able to secure a win.

    Barnett looks extremely athletic and Aleks looks like a regular dude (scaled upwards in height)... How did he keep him away for an entire round? Was it some magical bench presses he had been doing? No. It was strategy. How did barnett win? Was it his conditioning? No. He was able to take a shitload of punches and bounce back, and his SKILL on the ground won.
     
  21. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    Don't go around claiming shit is revolutionary or like anyone who doesn't do it is at a loss... You can physically train all you want, but if your mind isn't strong enough to keep your head straight, you'll get your ass handed to you in a fight. I may not be a physical therapist or a scientist, or a cocky schmuck who reads 1,000 articles a day (well i am, just subtract the articles), but I'm smart and experienced enough to know the basic shit that you seem to be overlooking.
     
  22. PurEvl

    PurEvl going out gassed and not half assed...

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    I have fought em all and the one thing i learned that saved me the most, is dont get hit in the face alot. Working pretty good so far, even against these super human nhb fighters that everyone claims to be :rolleyes:
     
  23. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    You ridicule my arguements yet all your posts are comprised of "man you suck at arguing" "lol ur skinny and hate weights haha".


    On one hand I give many valid points that counter the bull shit your boyfriend Mr. Rooney is spewing, which you don't have shit to say about. On the other hand, I admit sevral times that weights and gym time can help your game a lot, however if many other important factors to being successful in the ring. Like I said, most if it relies on where your head is, your strategy, and your skill in executing techniques. Other factors that matter a lot are things like being trained and experienced in getting beat the fuck up. If you can't think clearly when you're dazed then you can't execute a technique properly. If you can't execute a technique properly, then your strength means shit. This is fact.
     
  24. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest


    no way dude, you need these super 1337 training methods or else you're gonna lose... nobody has ever seen anything like it man it's the wave of the future.





    :greddy:
     
  25. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    When did I say I'd do shit myself? I'm saying in order to be a good fighter these are things you need to master. I personally have not mastered any of them yet, and I don't plan on being a ring fighter anytime soon so I probably won't ever master them. :dunno:

    I make my points from a wealth of knowledge that has been acquired over thousands of years of trained fighting styles, and is pretty common sense shit if you've ever fought before.

    Mind- if you have no confidence, or are not trained to keep composure after getting hit, how can you take advantage of an opportunity? You'll hesitate.
    Strategy- If you can't observe your opponents techniques and what they're doing, then how can you expect to win against them? You have to find a weakness to exploit. This can be an extremely simple thing.
    Skill- If you aren't trained well in how to execute a technique and when to execute it, then you're going to be doing ineffective shit that only delays your loss.
    Physical ability- If you cannot hit hard enough, resist, or endure, then the above are useless.



    Like I said. You can master physical ability down to perfection but without having the other aspects in check you're fucked. They're all equally important, but the thing is, when tuning the skill, you also gain physical ability. When tuning the mind to think while being hit, you're gaining physical ability. To learn strategy, you need to practice fighting. You're gaining physical ability.

    The physical ability training that is done outside of the context of the fighting style (let's say the big 3, or other lifts that don't really translate directly to a technique) can add to your game in some ways, but to be a good fighter it isn't necessary.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2006
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