Website dev. html too outdated??

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by patio87, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. patio87

    patio87 New Member

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    Ok well i've never been interested in website development, anything that has to do with web dev./programming. But now I need to build a site, so my question is should I even waste my time with HTML? What should I learn, Xml/html/dhtml/php/asp.net. What should I learn as a fundemental basis for building a website?
     
  2. Bruticus

    Bruticus half dead OT Supporter

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    A fundamental basis of a website will be html.

    You didn't mention what kind of website you need/want to build. That will depend on what languages you may use or will need to use.

    Also many WYSIWYG website development programs mean you won't have to know any (or very very little) code to make up an ok looking basic to moderate website.
     
  3. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    you obviously have NO working knowledge of how this works... go read a book.


    EVERYTHING will build itself to markup in it's most basic form. They are simply high-level engines for dynamically generating that markup.

    Oh, and you want XHTML, now, btw.
     
  4. et3rnul

    et3rnul OT Supporter

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    What are the benefits of following the XHTML standard? I've coded in html for awhile, but I haven't been keeping up with standards. I've only recently switched to Dreamweaver to validate code and perform other tasks.
     
  5. patio87

    patio87 New Member

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    Yeah should I just skip HTML and use XHTML.
     
  6. et3rnul

    et3rnul OT Supporter

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    I was actually going over some tutorials today. The way you do tables and such, wow. It's not difficult, it just takes a little time to get used to.
     
  7. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

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    :coolugh:
     
  8. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    HTML used to be the language that webpages were built from. Nowadays it's the language used to call all the subroutines and applets and other crap that webpages are built from. Whether you go retro and build a pure HTML website, or whether you go fancy and include Flash animations and Java applets and ASP web-forms, you're still going to have to know how to write HTML properly. Buy an HTML book (if you like tutorials, fine, but I prefer a good reference manual) and read it before building your website.
     
  9. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    and deusexaethera surprises us again with a "yes, he really can be just *that* stupid" post.
     
  10. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    XHTML does not allow tables to be used for layout. You need to use <div> and <span> tags.
     
  11. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

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    Yet, another brilliant post backing up your extensive knowledge in web development. I'm assured there is some relationship with this post:

    :o
     
  12. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

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    Tables can be used only for tabular data. Not for design.
     
  13. et3rnul

    et3rnul OT Supporter

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    Yeah, I meant I was learning to use div and span tags to do layouts instead of tables.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2006
  14. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    They are very closely related, yes.
     
  15. jeck

    jeck New Member

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    Are there any forums, resources, or websites that any of you guys recommend? :dunno:

    This is in terms of learning the languages or seeing other people's work and their different styles.
     
  16. YodaHart

    YodaHart New Member

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  17. jeck

    jeck New Member

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  18. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    what the fuck did i just read?
     
  19. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    HTML 4.01 FTMFW.

    According to the W3C:
    The media type (MIME type) is how a web-browser figures out what to do with a document - should it render it as a GIF image ("image/gif"), a HTML 4 webpage (text/html), an XHTML page (application/xhtml+xml) etc...

    So if you're writing an XHTML document, you wanna send it as application/xhtml+xml (see the quote from the W3C note). Trouble is, no version of Microsoft Internet Explorer to date, not even IE7, will recognize documents sent with a Content-type of application/xhtml+xml as any type of webpage, so instead it'll offer the file as a download.

    Firefox (and every other web-browser based on a non-ancient version of the gecko rendering engine), Opera, Konqueror, Safari, even links support the MIME type, and most of them probably for a long time too.

    So what do the web-developers do? They send the "valid" XHTML documents as text/html. That way this happens:

    Every web-browser will treat the document as HTML 4.01. And I mean every browser. Even those who support XHTML properly (going through an XML parser instead of SGML etc etc). IE will go into quirks mode (so you're just making it even harder to make pages that'll work on IE and the other web-browsers).

    For all intents and purposes, XHTML documents sent as text/html are HTML 4.01 documents with added shit (XML declaration, XML namespace attribute etc). (nevermind the "IE in quirks mode" bit)

    So basically, if you care about the 80%+ of users on the web who use the PIECE OF SHITE that is Microsoft (richest company in the world or something like that, there is just no fucking excuse) Internet Explorer, stay away from XHTML - HTML 4.01 is perfectly fine.

    Somebody get Bill Gates in here!



    (I've written all this shit so many times before. http://www.microsuck.com/forums/showpost.php?p=115743&postcount=37 See that thread)

    also see: http://hixie.ch/advocacy/xhtml
     
  20. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Another useless, WRONG post from piratepenguin! All websites I develop are XHTML and MSIE displays them PERFECTLY!
     
  21. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

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    You have no clue what you are talking about.
     
  22. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    Damnit you are an asshole, I was talking about XHTML documents sent as application/xhtml+xml, i.e. the recommended MIME type for XHTML documents.

    For all intents and purposes, your XHTML pages are HTML 4 pages with added shit, LIKE I'VE ALREADY EXPLAINED.
     
  23. piratepenguin

    piratepenguin New Member

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    What's wrong with HTML 4.01?

    What benifit have you gotten from using XHTML?
     
  24. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    I've gotten a more uniform document formatting standard, and an overall more consistant rendering result across platforms and browsers.
     
  25. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Not at all. For all intents and purposes my XHTML pages are text documents with the appropriate markup!

    As you have no idea how to explain!
     

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