GUN Was this a legit traffic stop?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by pimpofthenation, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. pimpofthenation

    pimpofthenation OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    64,639
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    near DETROIT, but less presidential
    I was riding my motorcycle home (to Detroit) from PA. In Ohio, I noticed a red truck strangely keeping pace with me no matter what speed I went. I figured something was up. About 10 minutes later, there was a State Trooper waiting for me as I rode past. I was not speeding, moving with traffic, just cruising along. Of course, he pulled out and paced me for a minute and then pulled me over. He came up and quickly said "I stopped you because you were going a bit fast, but... the real reason that I pulled you over is somebody called and said that you had a gun. Is that true?" Mind you, he spit all of this out right as he walked up to me. So I answered him and said "Yes, it is. I have a permit to carry in MI."

    He asked where it was and I showed him. I had it in my IWB holster, with my t-shirt hooked underneath the clip to keep it from blowing up in the wind. I also had a leather motorcycle jacket on as well. I'm still VERY surprised anybody even saw it, but whatever.

    But anyway, in a state with legal open carry... is this a legitimate reason to pull somebody over?

    I will add that the trooper was in fact, very polite and professional. There was no confrontation or anything like that.
     
  2. A96HondaAccordCoupeEX

    A96HondaAccordCoupeEX Silver Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2000
    Messages:
    37,971
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    CA
    We live in a world where, guns screams OMG OMG OMG OMG unfortunately. Sounds like everything was handled very well. They received a call. They have to follow up on it. :hs:

    How long did he waste your time for?
     
  3. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    38,934
    Likes Received:
    175
    Location:
    Cali-NO NFA-fornia
    :dunno: just wanted to make sure you were on the level i suppose.
     
  4. pimpofthenation

    pimpofthenation OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    64,639
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    near DETROIT, but less presidential
    Not long at all. Maybe 5 minutes, 10 at the max. We actually talked for a bit about unrelated stuff. When he actually saw me go past, I was in the process of trying to stretch my leg out because I've got a bum hamstring and it was getting tight after 6+ hours on the bike. We chatted a bit about hamstring injuries and running.
     
  5. pimpofthenation

    pimpofthenation OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    64,639
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    near DETROIT, but less presidential
    :dunno: Could you just pull over anybody you see driving a car to check if they have a driver's license?
     
  6. Asses Maximus

    Asses Maximus Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns d

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    15,148
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Between laziness and impatience
    it likely depends on state law and previous case law for the state. In GA it isnt PC or RS to stop somebody b/c they have a gun (OC or CC), but police still get a MWAG call and usually will stop you. What we rarely know is what the people who call the police say. They could say he is acting funny and speeding. None of which is true, but their senses are on overload b/c they are calling the police about a MWAG and they just say whatever sounds good.
     
  7. A96HondaAccordCoupeEX

    A96HondaAccordCoupeEX Silver Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2000
    Messages:
    37,971
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    CA
    No, but if someone saw you swerving and thought you drove wrecklessly. Or potentially drunk. You'll get pulled over.
     
  8. Asses Maximus

    Asses Maximus Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns d

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    15,148
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Between laziness and impatience

    Can I get a road block for 1000 Alex?
     
  9. FusionZ06

    FusionZ06 /\__/\__/\__0>

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    86,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sunshine State
    No you can't unless the officer has "reasonable suspicion" related to the individual driving the vehicle has committed, is committing or is about the commit an offense.

    Example being an officer pulls over Joe Smith in his 1990 blue Buick the other day for running a red light. Upon the initial stop and requesting Joe Smith's license he notices that Joe Smith has a suspended license. Joe admits to it and is arrested for DWLS/R. Well fast forward to today and the officer can plainly make out Joe Smith driving the same vehicle I'd say then that would be enough grounds for a stop. I'm sure case law might vary state to state on this exact issue.

    However, in everything I have learned and been taught it is always best to "wait" (if feasible) and actually witness another traffic infraction. It only takes a few minutes of following for someone to slip up. That way you have a nice clean pull-over without having to deal with an iffy stop that might harm the rest of the "fruit."

    Additionally if the officer has a "reasonable suspicion" that criminal activity is occurring, has occurred or is about to occur then he may make a warrantless stop of the vehicle. If the stop is iffy wait till you visualize an offense before making the stop. Better to be safe then sorry.

    However not that the officer must be able to articulate the facts that they relied on to come up with this "reasonable suspicion" and relate them to their training and experience in the given situation.

    Unfortunately the SCOTUS has liberally applied "reasonable suspicion" for traffic stops in a number of ways that I believe infringe on our fourth amendment rights against unlawful searches and seizures. Allowing things like a big camper, in a known drug area, that has quilts in the windows and doesn't "bounce" when going down a bumpy road reasonable suspicion of drug related trafficking.
     
  10. FusionZ06

    FusionZ06 /\__/\__/\__0>

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    86,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sunshine State
    That's also depending...

    Anonymous tips no but if someone will give up their name different story.

    There was a case I remember regarding a guy masturbating in a public park. Some lady complained anonymously to the police. After having citizen encounter and not witnessing any crimes nor confessions about the incident. The police further held the individual for a pro-long period of time. They further added that they lacked any reasonable suspicion whatsoever.
     
  11. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    38,934
    Likes Received:
    175
    Location:
    Cali-NO NFA-fornia
    no, but if he got a call about someone with a gun he has to check it out :slap:
     
  12. FusionZ06

    FusionZ06 /\__/\__/\__0>

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    86,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sunshine State
    This is not true.

    See Florida v. J.L. - an anonymous caller told police that a black male with a plaid shirt and blue jeans was carrying a gun at the bus stop.

    Police made contact with the "supposed" suspect frisked and found the weapon. Suspect was then charged with carrying a concealed weapon.

    Detention was illegal and the charges were dropped.

    However predictive information from an anonymous tipster has been held valid.

    For example in AL a women called police said a women leaves her hotel with crack, goes into her car, and drives it to another hotel. Police witnessed the above and the court upheld the detention.

    Cali has made an exception in the SC regarding anonymous tips and DUI's provided that they meet the requirements of plenty of detail about car and driver as well as location. Tipster should have first hand knowledge of the events and the direction of travel and details provided by the tipster must be corroborated by the officer.
     
  13. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    38,934
    Likes Received:
    175
    Location:
    Cali-NO NFA-fornia
    interesting
     
  14. FusionZ06

    FusionZ06 /\__/\__/\__0>

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    86,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sunshine State
    You understand why right?
     
  15. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    38,934
    Likes Received:
    175
    Location:
    Cali-NO NFA-fornia
    :hs: not really
     
  16. FusionZ06

    FusionZ06 /\__/\__/\__0>

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    86,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Well in reality one of the main reasons is to protect individuals from those making vindictive and baseless tips to the police.

    Think about you - you get into an argument with someone who knows you carry. They call the police anonymously and spout some bull-crap out just to be vindictive.

    See where this is going?
     
  17. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    38,934
    Likes Received:
    175
    Location:
    Cali-NO NFA-fornia
    yeah, i guess. but what if on the flip side someone had a gun illegally and the police did the right thing by stopping and talking to them :dunno:
     
  18. FusionZ06

    FusionZ06 /\__/\__/\__0>

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    86,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Yeah of course that's always nice but you have to protect the 4th amendment rights :hs:
     
  19. WooleyBooger

    WooleyBooger OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    4,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Are you LE or what? I don't mean anything by the question...i'm just curious, as you obviously know what you're talking about.
     
  20. FusionZ06

    FusionZ06 /\__/\__/\__0>

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    86,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Well currently I'm a second year law student.

    You can PM for my past history as I don't like to openly discuss it on OT :)
     
  21. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    38,934
    Likes Received:
    175
    Location:
    Cali-NO NFA-fornia
    slippery slope :hs:
     
  22. FusionZ06

    FusionZ06 /\__/\__/\__0>

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    86,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sunshine State
    :werd: What's next random stops to check you for weapons or drugs :hs: Well hey they'd find some people doing something illegal right? It's for the greater good! :hsugh:
     
  23. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    38,934
    Likes Received:
    175
    Location:
    Cali-NO NFA-fornia
    fuck that :o
     
  24. FusionZ06

    FusionZ06 /\__/\__/\__0>

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    86,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sunshine State
    My point is made :o
     
  25. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    38,934
    Likes Received:
    175
    Location:
    Cali-NO NFA-fornia
    i understand its tricky. on one hand, you want the police to be able to apprehend bad people. on the other, you want to preserve the right to privacy :hs:
     

Share This Page