GUN Walsh: Time to grow up and put your guns away

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by [DWI], Jun 23, 2008.

  1. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    I understand there can be some uneasness with open carry and some of the laws around open carry. Even though she doesn't seem to be the most rabid anti I've seen her wording doesn't make her sound like much of a friend. Still I think I prefer the false fact spewing anti's to the senseless name calling and not facts type.


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    Article Last Updated: 06/22/2008 12:34:35 AM MDT


    Click photo to enlargeRebecca Walsh My 20-month-old nephew loves Elmo and Dora. He also has started making explosion and gunfire noises.
    I get the inevitability of little boys' fascination with guns.
    What I can't figure out are the men and sometimes women who don't grow out of the gun-crazy stage of childhood, who need to have a handgun on their hips at all times, who need their neighbors to notice.
    Ten of them stormed the West Valley City Council meeting last week to back up Travis Deveraux, a 36-year-old credit card company worker, who was detained by police in December while exercising with his Smith & Wesson.
    "I don't blame them for being a little bit extra careful," Deveraux said. "But there's a line they crossed between being a little bit careful and a little bit too careful."
    I thought there was no such thing as "too careful" - especially with a gun. But the OpenCarry crowd's literal interpretation of the "right to bear arms" and self-appointment as our "well-regulated militia" undercuts careful law enforcement, membership in a civil society and even reason.
    It's in the Constitution, their thinking goes. They are "peaceably going about their business while armed," standing on the watchtower, the last line of defense against government tyranny and crazed criminals. We should thank them.
    I understand the thrill of firing a Glock (I've done it), the euphoria of hitting the center of a target (and that, too), generations of family deer-hunting weekends and the legitimate self-preservation instincts of Utah's elected concealed weapon carriers.
    But the OpenCarry movement is a mystery to me. What kind of psychology - overcompensation, paranoia, antisocial personality - is behind that thinking?
    Steven Gunn, an attorney and board member of the Gun Violence Prevention Center of Utah, believes it's pure ego.
    "We have inconsiderate boors walking around on the street carrying firearms openly," says Gunn. "I don't think they are truly afraid for their safety. Most of them are trying to make a statement about the Second Amendment."
    Anthropologist Charles Springwood says open carriers are trying to "naturalize the presence of guns, which means that guns become ordinary, omnipresent and expected. Over time, the gun becomes a symbol of ordinary personhood."
    OpenCarry.org, run by two Virginia gun lovers, claims 4,000 members nationwide. According to the Legal Community Against Violence in San Francisco, just seven states prohibit packing in public and eight restrict carrying handguns openly without a permit.
    Utah's OpenCarry activists put on a show for the Los Angeles Times a few weeks ago, trying to appear warm and fuzzy, shopping at Costco, just like you and me - but with their handguns flapping in the breeze. They meet once a month at restaurants like Denny's and Sweet Tomatoes to socialize.
    "We don't want to show up and say, 'Hey, we're here, we're armed, get used to it,' " Kevin Jensen told the Times reporter.
    But that's just what the showdown in West Valley City was about. The cowed mayor and City Council members referred the case to the officers' professional standards review board.
    Police are struggling to strike a balance between gun owners' rights and those of the rest of us.
    "There has to be some common sense on their part, too; they have to take into consideration the concern that they cause other citizens," says Layton Police Chief Terry Keefe. "I do not walk around when I'm off-duty with a weapon displayed."
    Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank would rather gun owners get concealed weapon permits than carry openly.
    "In light of Trolley Square, mall shootings, school shootings, anyone walking around with a gun potentially creates a lot of phone calls for us," Burbank says. "How do you expect an officer to deal with that - other than to point a gun at them and go through the process [of elimination]? There's no other way to make that determination safely without putting officers at risk."
    Utah lawmakers set up this stalemate when they wrote the state's anything-goes concealed weapon law. They deliberately left open a loophole for those who carry their guns out in the open. Under Utah law, open carriers must be 18 years old and keep their bullets out of the chamber. That's it. No training, no background check required.
    "Second Amendment questions aside," says Springwood, a professor at Illinois Wesleyan University, "the real debate seems to me a cultural and social one: Do we want a society in which it is an unconscious emblem of everyday life that folks move about with 'portable killing machines' strapped to their bodies?"
    Legislators already have made that decision for us; we're living in the modern heart of the wild, wild West.

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9662672
     
  2. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    I'm on the fence on that one, I've known plenty of 18 y/o I probably wouldn't want carrying, hell if I met an 18 y/o version of myself I probably wouldn't want him to carry either. At the same time I am not at all fond of more rules and regualtion.

    Still there is a bit too much name calling and looking down upon going on in that article for my taste.
     
  3. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    That may be one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

    Oh the ironing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2008
  4. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    Can you point out any violent crime committed by someone OCing?

    Wait you can't.
     
  5. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    god, gun owners are fucking worthless. you only want the laws to disappear you don't like
     
  6. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    QFT. Gun owners bitch and moan about liberty and molon labe and when it comes down to it a huge percent are the same kind of ignorant emotionally driven elitists who believe they are the only ones professional enough just like all the antis they complain about.


    If you can legally own a gun, you should be able to carry that gun.
     
  7. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    I don't care for her article, or her sarcastic tone, but personally I prefer concealed over open.
    I don't have to conceal, but I do. I don't WANT anyone (read everyone) to know I have a gun, and I DON'T have "something to prove."

    I prefer to stay anonymous and low-key. It's my business that I'm carrying a gun, not everyone else's.




    Just how I feel.
     
  8. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    In MN you have to get a permit to carry, regardless. Makes no difference how you choose to carry once you get the permit, but you do need the permit.
    There is no open carrying without a permit. I agree with that. Prove you are legit to carry, and then make your choice how.

    I still lean towards concealed only though, but I don't argue the case.
     
  9. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    No one can show one example where these "feelings" they have play out. everyone "thinks" something bad can happen BUT NOTHING DOES

    it is pervasive even in gun owners, shown in post #2

    fact is, no one has any proof it is more of a danger. ANY. "they need a permit" yeah, fuck you no.
     
  10. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    and i don't think anyone should be forced to one way or another. i am comfortable enough to OC, but I prefer to CC. Whatever ones comfort is should be what you do.

    But to say OC is dangerous as her article does? Morons with a pen are dangerous as well, but don't care say that!
     
  11. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Yeah I agree with that. Which is why I said I prefer concealed carry all the time, but I don't argue it with people or push for concealed-only legislation.
     
  12. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

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    pretty much
     
  13. Tdizzle

    Tdizzle New Member

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    Personally I don't see the appeal to open carry. I understand the deterrent logic behind the idea, but I'm of the opinion that if I'm carrying I'd rather it be a surprise if I need to use it. That being said I still support anyone's right to open carry if they want to, but not at 18.
     
  14. Aequitas

    Aequitas If it keeps on raining, levee's going to break.

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    It's amazing to me just how frightened these people are of guns.
     
  15. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Clearly you do, at least in the same style that Barack Obama supports the 2nd amendment.

    Seriously how can you say you support the right to bear arms 1000% after saying that you have problems with adults carrying guns?
     
  16. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    Not all 40 year olds should be called adults either. What methodology would you be comfortable with for deciding which adults get to exercise their freedoms and which don't?
     
  17. pimpofthenation

    pimpofthenation OT Supporter

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    that is the only part of the article that's worth a shit. I do understand the pickle that it puts police in. Of course, if somebody is OC'ing... SOMEBODY is going to see it and call the police and say "I saw a man with a gun walking towards the mall." What are the police supposed to do? They HAVE to respond. They HAVE to determine if there is a threat.
     
  18. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    MOTHER FUCKING .
     
  19. Vermincelli

    Vermincelli Banned

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    GET OFF MY LAWN!
    I don't give a shit HOW you carry your gun and everyone one else shouldn't either. If you have a problem with someone open carrying, then next time you have someone who has a problem with you concealed carrying, look in the mirror.
    I carry both ways depending on what I'm doing or my mood.
    I'm not worried one bit about the person who's carrying their sidearm on their hip openly, criminals don't do that.
     
  20. idleprocess

    idleprocess Bring a dollar with you baby in the cold cold grou

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    911 caller: "Someone walked past carrying a gun!"
    Dispatcher: "You saw someone carrying a gun? Where?"
    911 caller: "They walked into the mall!"
    Dispatcher: "Allright. Remain calm. What were they doing?"
    911 caller: "They had a gun in a holster!"
    Dispatcher: "In a holster. Did they threaten anyone?"
    911 caller: "They just walked into a shoe store and now they're ... trying on shoes! I'm so scared!"
    Dispatcher: [click]

    Motherfucking dawt. Crooks have this nasty tendency of not following the rules. If only they'd stop doing that - we wouldn't have any crime!
     
  21. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

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    if a person can legally own the gun at 18, why can't they carry it? :ugh:
     
  22. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Well, you can legally own rifles and shotguns at 18, and you can legally OWN a handgun, but you can't BUY a handgun at 18.

    Personally, if 18 is going to be the deciding factor between adult and minor (which to date it is), then everything else should be 18 as well.
    Drink at 18
    Drive at 18
    Guns at 18

    etc
     
  23. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

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    In my state (and many others) 18 year olds are not disallowed by law from purchasing handguns from a private party.
     
  24. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Yeah only restricted from buying from dealers/FFL's.
     
  25. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    I bought a handgun when I was 18.

    Why should people who can legally own a handgun not be able to carry it? Because some of them are irresponsible or too dangerous? Why should anyone be allowed to own high capacity magazines or machineguns? Aren't those dangerous too?

    You people that are arguing to require permits for open carry, you're using the EXACT same logic as people arguing against concealed carry, or even owning a gun for that matter. It's that carrying (or owning) a firearm should be left up to those professional enough like the police and military.

    Of course there will be people out there that do dumb and horrible things with firearms, but do you honestly believe that another law will help that?
     

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