FRK Virginity as Purity vs. Status

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Drunken Karnie Midget, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. Drunken Karnie Midget

    Drunken Karnie Midget In Yeo We Trust, All Others Pay Cash OT Supporter

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    I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this thread, but what sparked it was from this forum, so here goes...


    This Thread started me thinking, or rather has simply brought up old thoughts of the past. Is saving yourself for marriage really worth it? Is emotional connection a prerequisite of sex? The original poster of the thread linked above states that his girlfriend's only rule is no vaginal/penile intercourse, as she is wanting to save herself for marriage, yet is willing to do things that "normal" people would consider depraved, reprehensible behavior. To the original poster of that thread, it is not my intention to call you out in any way shape or form. Your thread was merely a convenient example. I can only assume that "saving yourself for marriage" is based on religious grounds of morality, which is indicitive of a purity of soul. With that being the grounds, would not buttsex, blowjobs, facials, handjobs, fisting, and all around carnal depravity excluding only the coupling of two organs that are meant by design to go together rather cancel out any "moral purity?"

    In my book, sex is just sex. It's fun, and as long as both (or all) parties involved know and understand the risks and side effects, then there's no reason not to engage in it. There is no prerequisite emotional connection, nor moral code to restrict such activity. Marriage isn't a requirement, that's just dogmatic bullshit imposed by ancient power-hungry tyrants, who rarely practiced what they preached. If you're going to go anywhere at all, then you minus whale be prepared to go through with EVERYTHING. On the overall scale of human sexuality, from simple holding hands, to the most depraved shit anyone on the planet has ever conceived, (and in the internet age, we've all learned that there seem to be no limits at all whatsoever to this), simple sexual intercourse is pretty far down the scale.
     
  2. dazed

    dazed New Member

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    I'm the original threadstarter.

    Don't worry, no offense taken.

    My girlfriend's reasoning for not wanting to have sex started out at waiting for marriage, yet now as we've talked about it's not really that anymore.

    She's never had sex with anyone, and tells me she wants to wait until she's ready. We're still young (22).

    It's not so much as purity for her, but more of being ready. To her (I don't agree) actual intercourse is taking "sex" to a different level and shows a different level of commitment.

    That's the part I don't understand. Being naked is when one is at his most vulnerable, and that alone, to me, is enough to show that new level of commitment.

    Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic, but I've never been one for a one-night stand and never had sex outside of a relationship. It truly is a different level of commitment, but I don't see the difference in commitment from even lying together naked to sex.

    I love her, and respect her, and am not going to change her mind even though I wholeheartedly do not agree.
     
  3. RougeOgre

    RougeOgre FS Librarian and MOD

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    Hmmm... I know some folks who used to post here had the no penis/vag rule simply because they did not want any chance of unwanted offspring. So they indulged in everything else.

    On your original thought, some people consider oral sex as "not cheating".
    :dunno:
     
  4. jazzmoney

    jazzmoney New Member

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    I see that happening when there is guilt in regards to particular actions...
    Parents tell you "You shouldn't have sex before marriage". And a person begins to reason within themselves that a blow job is not sex, only penetration is. And by prohibiting themselves from penetration sex prior to marriage, in their minds, they have kept to that commitment.

    I believe that sex should be guilt free. That's why if a person or couple feel that they shouldn't do something, and they don't, then good for them. You can't always expect people to self examine their beliefs when they've already invested so much into it.
     
  5. Phantom Empress

    Phantom Empress mmmmmm tasty!!!

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    IMO anyone that thinks doing Everyting BUT sticking the dick in the pussy is 'virginity" is delusional.. but that's just my opinion. :o
     
  6. Drunken Karnie Midget

    Drunken Karnie Midget In Yeo We Trust, All Others Pay Cash OT Supporter

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    Interesting responses. To further my thought, something i intended to include in my original post, but lost some of my thoughts as is so common when i rant: Many people (often religious) place virginity on a pedestal as if it were something to be cherrished, despite the fact that it really is nothing special, as we're ALL born virgins. Hell, i was a virgin until i was 18 (lack of opportunity, not moral choice) and yet never felt it was anything special. Quite the opposite in fact, as i found out, being a virgin, or at the very least, convincingly claiming to be one, is the quickest, and easiest way to not be one anymore. In my eyes, virginity is merely an easy, one word way to say, "i've never gotten laid," and nothing more than that. In American society, particularily within the more religiously alligned subcultures, a 21 year old virgin is praised as being morally superior to everyone else. They are viewed as being good christians etc. and yet they've all forgoten that not everyone shares the same moral views, and Christianity/Catholicism does not have a monopoly on morality.

    Dazed, it now makes sense to me why she has that rule in place, and i can agree with it. It started out as a moral "wait till i'm married" bullshit, but then changed to "i'm simply not ready." for me that's perfectly understandable, and agreeable. I've stated before that i have no qualms with purely recreational sex, even one-nighters, between responsible, prepared parties.
     
  7. Drunken Karnie Midget

    Drunken Karnie Midget In Yeo We Trust, All Others Pay Cash OT Supporter

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    :werd:
     
  8. Drunken Karnie Midget

    Drunken Karnie Midget In Yeo We Trust, All Others Pay Cash OT Supporter

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    you and jazzmonkey seem to be in agreement here...

    I've seen this in the "life issues" forum on this corney little site that i'm a member of: Gaia Online under "General Discussion" there's a subforum "Life Issues" which is mostly full of a bunch of confused teenagers (read: 12-16 year olds) seeking advice on relationships, both sexual, peer, parental etc. as well as drug use/abuse, and just about anything else... Most seem to come off as self-pampering retards that somehow think that just because their situation is only slightly different than the 5000 other posts, the advice is going to be different. Many of these kids fit into that irritating demographic i've described previously, and yet have almost invariably delluded themselves into thinking that a BJ was somehow outside of their "Moral Choice to Wait Until Marriage" (if you look up the user "Jurgium" and read some of my posts there, you'll see what i think of the asshats, and yet still offering genuine advice.
     
  9. pigeon

    pigeon wasabi

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    after skimming the thread, i agree with pe
    many of my friends in college (i attended a couple of evangelical christian schools - teh second for the academics, not the religion) were the kind of people who thought they were saving themselves by doing "everything but penis in the vagina" because "we stay virgins that way"
    i personally think that's bullshit. i'm not judging people who think that way; you do what you have to do. i just think it's silly. respectfully, you have your approach, i have mine.

    i think it's bullshit because if you take the christian viewpoint it's for purity and that includes any sexual act. i had friends who took purity very seriously and didn't kiss until the wedding ceremony. i can't say i'd take it that far (not that i have, i'm FAR from a virgin) but i respected their approach to purity and their willingness to hold fast to what they believe. the idea was to avoid "lustful thoughts" and to avoid any activities that would trigger those thoughts. personally, i thought they took it pretty far, but like i said, i respected their approach.

    i do think that the whole "everything but" is silly because that's not staying pure in the christian sense. and i'm not saying you SHOULD stay pure in the christian sense, i just think that the "everything but" is a gross misinterpretation of "maintaining virginity" - annnnnd i think that anal is wayyy more of a step than just penis to vagina intercourse. but this is all just my opinion.

    i've always thought it was a silly idea. when i decided to forgoe my idea of waiting until marriage (which turned out to be a terrible idea, at least with that partner :rolleyes: ) he wanted to just do oral so i could "save myself"
    i figured, wtf, i'm going this far, why not go all the way. ironically, i, the virgin, pushed the idea more than he seemed comfortable with, and he wasn't a virgin. i wonder if he was trying to "protect" me. i'm just saying, i think if you're going to do it, go all the way, and if you're not, abstain (or refrain, if you prefer that term instead) all the way.

    but it's getting to be evening and i'm tired and hungry and not concentrating well so i might come back tomorrow and go "omg wtf did i write????" :o
     
  10. Lovely Atlantis

    Lovely Atlantis Luscious Lovely Lady!

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    Well I guess many of you in this thread would say that I'm stupid then, because I was one of those girls who did everything but penetration because I wanted to save my virginity for marriage. BUT this was only with one partner- not going around giving head to multiple guys. I was raised in a fairly religious christian home where the "wait until your married" idea was pushed on me constantly. There was no way I could have full sex without feeling horribly guilty. Also I had an overwhelming fear that if I had sex with him he would leave me because he would have gotten what he wanted. Maybe something like the "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" idea. So anyway, things started out slow with fingers, and mutual masterbation and then gradually oral. I felt guilty about all that stuff too though. Somewhere along the line it became less about the "marriage" part and more about the only wanting to have one sexual partner. So once we were engaged we finally ended up having full sex and I was fine with it. However, I wanted to still "save" something for my wedding night so he never came inside me until then.

    ok that was really rambling and I don't know that I had a point there... but that's my story :p
     
  11. Phantom Empress

    Phantom Empress mmmmmm tasty!!!

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    That's your choice and I'll respect that. I'll stillthink it's silly tho.
     
  12. Drunken Karnie Midget

    Drunken Karnie Midget In Yeo We Trust, All Others Pay Cash OT Supporter

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    It actually catches me a little off guard to find someone from the other end of the spectrum in this forum, but you yourself stated (though i'm not sure if this was a typo, or just not an unfinished thought) that the only thing he hadn't done up to that point was to unload inside you. I can understand wanting to save something for marriage, but that seems to come off as more of a wedding gift, than a moral code or decision. It appears to no longer be a matter of moral purity than, "here you go honey, this is JUST for you." which is perfectly understandable.

    I don't think you're so far from my argument as you think... you simply were from the far side.

    As far as saving a gift for the husband/wife on the wedding night, versus moral purity, it's a fun, even novel idea, though i think i'd find it difficult to maintain that, without a major driving force to help bolster one's convictions on the matter... i.e. if one person is saving her vaginal chastity, and is willing to go further and further in almost every other aspect, what's really stopping her in the heat of the moment for going that one tiny step further? There's no moral fear of being damned etc. to stop her, it was merely something personal that she wanted to save for one other person. Like a troubled kid saving their innermost thoughts for their best friend in the form of a diary, or journal, etc... there's little to help stop yourself in the heat of the moment, and as we ALL know, the heat of the moment can be REALLY fucking hot. :naughty:
     
  13. Figori

    Figori Taking BRC to the EXTREME. OT Supporter

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    Hmm. I was a virgin until I was 23. Not because the opportunity didn't present itself, but because, being a Christian (not religious), it was something I was always taught to keep for the one you married. My now wife and I were each others firsts. Is there anything wrong with that? No. Did I take my fair share of teasing and taunting in high school/college/workplace? Yes. But that was something I was taught would happen.

    Looking back, sometimes I wonder if I would have "enjoyed" more of my high school years if I had been more interested into sex. But I don't regret what I did. And as far as she has told me, neither does my wife. Mind you, I met her when she was 12.. (Robbing the cradle, I know. I'm only 4 years older...) To me, it was nice knowing that she had only been with me. And she defenitely appreciated that I hadn't slept around when I was given the opportunity.

    Now, back to the Christianity part. I have attended Private (Christian if you prefer) schools my entire career. Even attended a Baptist Bible college for a year. It was beat into my head for years that it was wrong to have sex outside of marriage, but that the actual act was fun and exciting. Some people were only taught that sex is a horrible thing, and that might have a different effect on them. But I'm glad I was taught that it is good. It has opened new horizons to me. And as long as I enjoy it with my wife, there is nothing we can do that would be considered "bad" from a Christian point of view. "Marriage is holy, and the bed undefiled..." Such a great verse.
     
  14. Drunken Karnie Midget

    Drunken Karnie Midget In Yeo We Trust, All Others Pay Cash OT Supporter

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    Interesting... I don't mean to pry, but shear morbid curiosity drives me to ask: Did you do anything in leau of actual penile/vaginal intercourse, outside of making out (even the amish go that far, despite the wishes of their parents, and they're... well they're amish) i.e. oral, manual stimulation, etc?
     
  15. pigeon

    pigeon wasabi

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    massive headache so i'm still only participating halfway in the thread
    i wanted to say
    in my mind there is a difference between an idea being stupid and a person being stupid ;)

    i may not agree with an idea but that doesn't mean i think the person who thinks it is stupid.

    and maybe i should say i think it's bullshit for me but if it works for other people, rock on. i'm not sure if that makes sense.
     
  16. eighteen_psi

    eighteen_psi Active Member

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    Proud 25 year old male virgin here, kink inclined, wholly inexperienced and keeping it that way. I've said before I find a willingness to participate in other sexual acts strange with respect to 'everything-but virginity' and all that but I don't judge. Just because I have one set of values doesn't mean everyone else has to fall in line obviously.

    My thing is abstinence for ethical/religious/moral reasons...meaning for a reason other than 'don't want an STD or a baby' is about chastity and denial of self - there is power in self-denial whether it be something worldly you enjoy or a theoretical ideal of single-partner, married sex without any boundaries whatsoever. I mentioned in a thread or two at some point that the idea of being physical with only one woman, ever seems hot to me. Similarly, I've rarely been given grief about my position and in fact, most women think it's pretty hot in and of itself.

    This fact has put me in a position whereby I'm forced to stand up for my beliefs on a couple of occasions :)o) but that's fine - makes me stronger.

    The point here is we are not animals subject to our drives and desires. I find nothing evil about the desires...in fact, as strong Christian I can confidently, biblically justify damn near any type of sexual shenanigan within the context of monogamous, heterosexual marriage :noes: I believe firmly in the position that we're made sexual beings with tremendous power of choice, in God's image. Given that, so long as we stick to His guidelines we need not be ashamed of our temptation - Christ was tempted - its actions that define us, not some type of 'evil thought' or 'sick perversion' of desire for a less-than-vanilla activity.

    I've said before my exact limits and conviction with who, when and where aren't really the forums' business but since its already brought up here, my general guidelines go as follows - if you don't have one, you don't touch it, clothes stay on, we stay vertical.

    So to take on a question aimed at someone else, no, I've never done anything further than 'making out' and the definition of that is debatable in the first place it seems. I'm pretty conservative but that's why I haven't dropped the ball here, and it is important to me for many reasons. Clear-cut boundaries give me the power to do what I want without fear or hesitation leading up to said boundaries and the self denial is beneficial elsewhere in life, both spiritually and secularly. All that said, I look forward to nothing more than swan diving off the headboard on my wedding night.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2007
  17. Phantom Empress

    Phantom Empress mmmmmm tasty!!!

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    Eighteen :love:


    we've spoken about this before. the fact that you have Clear and defined, defendable and Absolutely awesome resolve is what I respect. You are amazing.
     
  18. FifthGear

    FifthGear -

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    so im not the only 25y/o virg. cool :h5: I have had a few opportunities for sex, and it was one of those situations where i was just like....uhh no thanks. And on the inside i was thinking, i KNOW i would get something from her. That was about 5 years ago. And now im to a point where im not going to go have sex with some random chick just to get laid. Im going to wait untill the time is right. For now i'll stick to self bondage, strippers and porn.

    :wiggle:
     
  19. Unknown

    Unknown OT Supporter

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    I can pretty much agree with you here. Something about finding that person, doesn't even really have to be the "one", but someone you truely like and can see having a romantic relationship with is where I come from. I probably could have lost my virginity by now but I didn't see myself just wanting to do it with someone I really didn't care for just to say I got laid. I agree with Figori on the teasing and taunting thing also, I hear about it almost everyday at work now and it's almost starting to get annoying to the point of, fine let me do it to get it over with. :mamoru: But whatever, I guess I'm now just waiting to find A girl that I truely like. :hs:
     
  20. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    No one take my post the wrong way, its not a personal attack on anyone, I haven't read the thread yet even.

    Not only is it not worth it, its down right dumb. Sexual compatibility is as important to a relationship as all the other types of compatibilities we check out with the person you're dating. How can you make a serious commitment without checking out such an important aspect of the relationship?

    In my experience most people aren't even all that serious about it though. Jesus doesn't want me to have a cock in my pussy, but he won't mind if I take it in the ass! It just seems like so much left over stigma about sex from religion and people hold on to that last sliver to still be able to feel like they can claim they're religious.

    No matter what your religious inclination, you're living here for a very short time. If you're lucky it won't be unusually short. If you're lucky your peep won't start to go out on you when you get to 40. Sex is one of the most basic and pure pleasures in life. You don't to spend any money, have anything special, have any drugs, etc. Its just 2 people having a really fun time. Sure it can be a deep emotional experience between 2 lovers or it can just be some good fun between 2 friends. Find someone you want to fuck that wants to fuck you and just go nuts. You'll be dead before you know it and there's nothing any more wrong with it than enjoying a pretty sunrise or a calming thunderstorm. Don't miss out on life.
     
  21. Drunken Karnie Midget

    Drunken Karnie Midget In Yeo We Trust, All Others Pay Cash OT Supporter

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    Well said, and you're one of the few that have really maintained that level of self discipline. While i don't neccessarily agree with your choices, my disagreement is also of a religious nature, and by no means should it be discussed here. What i don't get is why virginity is always placed on such a pedestal, even among those who don't neccessarily consider themselves to be religious (read: christian). For a christian to maintain that level of self discipline, without cheating (meaning using alternative methods of getting off without crossing that technical boundary, and thus failing at what they were claiming to do,) but for a non-christian, there's no moral code or dogma stating "no sex before marriage or god will spank you." People seem to follow it as if there is, and yet turn around and go to great lengths to get off with whomever they damn well please, leaving out that one tiny little aspect, just to try and maintain some sense of moral superiority. Wouldn't it be simpler for individuals to follow the line of thought that there is no moral superiority in virginity, and that sex is fun, recreational or otherwise? While granted, a strong emotional connection can make a sexual experience that much more meaningfull, it's not required for one to partake.
     
  22. Figori

    Figori Taking BRC to the EXTREME. OT Supporter

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    And my response is the same. Setting boundaries before you get into a relationship is key. It helps you know where to stop and where not to start. And let me tell you... It was one heck of a wedding night. ;)
     
  23. Drunken Karnie Midget

    Drunken Karnie Midget In Yeo We Trust, All Others Pay Cash OT Supporter

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    :cool:
     
  24. RSX_E

    RSX_E KittyCat

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    Lust is one of the 7 deadly sins.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. eighteen_psi

    eighteen_psi Active Member

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    Let him who is without sin cast the first stone :mamoru:
     

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