Updating my 'maaco' thread. Got some pics. **PICS**

Discussion in 'That'll Buff Right Out' started by Mycophiles, Feb 27, 2010.

  1. Mycophiles

    Mycophiles OT Supporter

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    If feels like yesterday but about 2 months ago I started painting my car. I was originally planning on taking the car to maaco and doing the work myself but I figured I could paint it myself since my buddy and I were both having our cars painted and save money. (and boy was I right about the money part. We'll come out about 1300 bucks put into the whole thing. )

    I've digressed a bit. Let me go back to when I decided to paint the car myself. Once I got a compressor that was able to run a DA and spray gun the deal was clenched and we were in it for the long haul. What I didn't know is how much milarky (yes I used the work milarky) there was in the shadow world of 'painting'. ... such as "you have to have a DA" This is such utter bull:q:q:q:q I don't know where to start. .. so I won't. Then there is the 'miss-information' about how to prep and how to paint. This is where the boys and the men are separated. In painting you HAVE to follow the instructions. You HAVE to read the directions (and follow them) You HAVE to be clean. You HAVE to be patient and methodical. You HAVE to be fearful of the chemicals you are using. And further there is the unending versions of painting processes. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE has their own technique that works for THEM. ( so the question is how are you going to find what works for you when you are only painting one car huh? .. good question huh? and probably the biggest deterrent to people painting their own cars. Bunch of chickens running around with their heads cut off saying "WHO'S SUGGESTIONS DO I FOLLOW!".

    So after I decided to paint the car myself my compressor decided to go into melt-down mode. 2 broken pistons. I wait 2 weeks for the 50$ in parts (pretty cheap huh) and put the compressor togeather only to have the compressor blow up again 2 days later. So I wait ANOTHER 2 weeks and scour the internet ( which I had done before but this time I got a hold of a craftsman tech. that gave me the torque specs for the screws on the compressor ) So 140$ later the compressor is working again. ( I'm still crossing my fingers every time is turns on though. )

    OK, so this is why it's been 2 months. 4 weeks of waiting for parts. Most of the other time has been waiting for good weather. I'd still be waiting if I hadn't figured out that humidity is not as big a deal as what they 'tell' you it is. Make sure it's a nice day = yes, but if the humidity is a bit above 50% no problem. Give your paint a bit more flashing time. Along this line, if you have a paint gun with a 1.5 mm tip and you are shooting primer and need a 2mm tip, NO PROBLEM thin out your primer and add another coat. It's all in the details in painting. Really.. It is. ( Note: temp is important. No colder than 50degrees and this means for your car and the weather. ... and don't go thinking you can paint while it's raining and not have moisture coming out of your paint gun... )

    Ok, so what did I do in this time. I read. And read. And discovered you can buy 3m sandpaper in 175pad rolls for 15$ on ebay or 30yard rolls for 15bucks. ( hugely important for saving money )

    I also worked on my car. I put bondo on the big dent in the back which took me an entire afternoon to get the curve correct ( and still needs work ). I also puttied out all the feathering spots on the car that were deep. (NOTE: feathering means you have 2 inches showing PER LAYER.. 'proper' fethering is a large suface area ...now ya know. )

    Finally I was ready to paint. In researching paint you find words like "epoxy paint" or "high build surfacer primer" or "etching paint" or 'sealer'. I'm still a novice at this so I won't try to define these things for you guys but you certainly can look them up. ( there is a wide variety of loosly defined definitions as to what these paints are 'for' in painting your car). For me I had a lot of metal showing so I needed to get something that would adhere to the metal. So I got some epoxy paint. The car was sanded with 220 and the metal was sanded with 100grit and I shot the car.

    Before it looked like this. (putty had been sanded and feathered in)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    After 2 coats of epoxy grey primer it looked like this.
    [​IMG]

    Now comes the time to talk about paint guns. This is freaking HUGE when It comes to painting. Only way to get your feet wet is to jump right in though. So here's what I have noticed about my painting so far.

    Areas like this:
    [​IMG]

    are 'perfect' this is the way you want the paint to look afterward. Though I noticed that I was very close to the car when I shot this area. Like 3-4 inches.

    Other areas like this:
    [​IMG]
    and
    [​IMG]


    I noticed the orange peel. In reflection I kept the gun around 4-5 inches from the car in these spots and this was what most of the car looked like.

    ... but it wasn't the worse. There was the roof...
    [​IMG]

    Door insides.
    [​IMG]

    where I had been 7-8 inches away and the paint was drying before It got to the car... hmmm.. need to thin it out a bit maybe .. oooorrr... site in the paint gun.

    http://www.autobody101.com/articles/article.php?title=Paint Atomization

    (good article on this... and EXTREMELY IMPORTRTANT)

    The epoxy primer is just the first primer so it's good practice (as long as you get good coverage).


    Now I'm block sanding the car. I'm in the process. I painted to hood and trunk today also. Here's pics of the trunk, hood, and the ongoing block sanding. Notice the low spots ( either from bad feathering or low spots that had gone unnoticed before )

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I am having a small problem with my gun. I have a cambell hausfeild gun and I don't have the wrench to take the front part of the gun off. Thus I'm noticing that even with all the cleaning I'm doing there is still bits of dried paint inside the front of the gun I can't get too. ( either that or I still need to work on dialing in the gun. )
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Today it's getting sealed and 3-4 coats of 2k primer/surfacer. After that it will get a guide coat/ blocked again (fixed if needed) and then ready for paint.

    Then paint. (really worried about the painting... I am going to shoot something a couple of times to get the feel of real paint going through the gun.

    I am painting it black. :)
     
  2. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    So you're basically coming back claiming that the advice you received here from people with experience is, in your opinion, BS.... and saying that you know more than us now because you've laid some shitty looking primer down on your car? Is that about right?

    Not trying to be rude, and sorry if I'm interpreting you wrong... but I'm not usually that far off.
     
  3. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    :werd: and he's putting BLACK paint over top of it :bowrofl:
     
  4. Scottwax

    Scottwax Making detailing great again! Moderator

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    You've got a fuck ton of wetsanding to make that primer suitable for paint.
     
  5. seismic

    seismic New Member

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    .

    The one thing I learned from painting is that if it doesn't look perfect wet, it's not going to look any better dry. If you want that to look right, you've got to do it again. :hs:
     
  6. Morgan06

    Morgan06 New Member

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    In for results. That primer looks like the back of a Nestle Crunch :rofl:
     
  7. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    Too bad he doesn't have or think he needs a DA.

    A belt sander should do the trick fine though, don't you think? :mamoru:
     
  8. Mycophiles

    Mycophiles OT Supporter

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    You could interpret it like that. (I don't think I specifically said you guys... I looked all over the internet and read the same thing everywhere.. but also I think in my original thread you guys were saying to use 320 grit wet and 600grit wet to sand the car... which I bought. Which most everywhere else says to buy dry and to buy those grits for your da or handblockers ) I did use a DA but I don't see why you would need a DA. If you use a RO to take your clear off and then do the rest of the blocking by hand I don't see a reason why you need a da. ( this might change as my experience grows though )The dirt and grittyness in the paint are gone now. I was wondering what was happening also. This turned out to be my inexperience with the paint gun. I did not clean it thourally and did not know how to calibrate it correctly.What the pictures show is like I believe I said only the epoxy primer. I blocked it to find the low spots in the car and fill them. this is only the first blocking. I think I need to accept the fact that I'm going to be sanding/painting/sanding/painting etc. I need to put the 2k surfacer on there to get into the sanding / guide coat /sanding again / guide coat : repeat.With a car that is not entirely straight and has a lot of the paint off maybe a DA is needed. I'll be using one today. The RO's are good for taking a lot of paint off but afterward you have the option of doing it by hand or using a da I guess. I've been doing it by hand.I posted up the pictures of the different types of paint because It was my first time shooting with a gun. It's a bit tricky. If you look at the spotted stuff and the orange peel you see that I don't have the flow on the gun set correctly. I'm pretty sure the gun is clogged and don't have the part to take the tip of the gun off and clean it. ( It's been ordered ) Also, I am using a 1.4 mm tip and should have a 1.5 or 1.7 tip to shoot this stuff. So I either need a new tip or I need to reduce my mixture a bit ( if possible ) . There are not pics of it but I did sand the car smooth again and hit the car with epoxy sealer (which is reduced) and it came out very wet. Looked much better than before. The dirt is from the gun itself. The first time shooting the gun I didn't clean it like I said before and I continously got little specs of hardened paint coming though the gun. (sometimes big spots) ( live and learn I guess ) In the mean time, this last time shooting the car with the epoxy primer I learned more about how to spray. 60-70% overlay, style, how I like to paint and how it dry's. (I'm missing what shine shop is saying with his gif... can't view it on this computer)I also have a 16" phumatic blocking sander that I will be using now. Hopefully this will help out. Everyone is right in this thread. The paint looks horrible, has specs etc. I agree. I'm working on the fix for these. The work is cut out for me. (and yes.. I'm very afraid of the black but I want black... everyone I know looks at the primer and says it's ready... I just laugh and sigh. )
    I'm posting on several forums. One for the technical stuff and my car club and here. The reason I post here is for the 'reality' I guess you could say. ( I can ignore shineshop remarks all day long. Look at the reg date. ;-) Keep it up OT.
     
  9. Pussysmith

    Pussysmith Banned

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    I hate to say this but I think that vehicle will need to be professionally chemical stripped. You can't sand that again because its going to damage the sheetmetal and then you'll be pit-filling and mudding every square inch (not that a skim coat is really a problem but ideally you wouldn't be going all the way down to the metal unless necessary). Have you considered hiring some help off craigslist? Maaco can do better than what you have done...
     
  10. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    I agree, the film build he's already got and is going to end up having by the time all is said and done is going to be RIDICULOUSLY thick. I give it about....*blink*.... until it starts to delaminate. Not to mention there's no way he'll get all those dirt nibs out without leaving craters behind.

    This is the product of shitty technique, shitty cheap products, a shitty paint gun, and most likely inadequate air supply filtration.

    Not our problem though, I mean after all he IS an expert at this after doing one car and encountering epic fail. Let's let him show us how a real pro does it since all the 'professionals' here who have been dealing with paint in varying capacities for years are good for is "reality," whatever the fuck that means. :mamoru:
     
  11. Pussysmith

    Pussysmith Banned

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    In all honesty air supply filtration is to blame for almost as much as the way you left the surface before painting (I have never seen such a crappy prep job before spray and I've seen kids try and paint cars).

    You need a legitimate water separator as well as a way to remove oil from the air (there is tons of oil in the air from the compressor). The oil is partly to blame for all the fish eyes and orange peeling (orange peeling is preps and spray fault but somewhat the dirty air). If you have a filter on there then you need to see if you have the right oil in the compressor and you need to see if the compressors air filter is clean clean clean.
     
  12. seismic

    seismic New Member

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    Out of curiousity, is there a problem with thick paint? Mine is literally about as thick as a fingernail because I had the stock paint prepped, horrible paint job on top of that, blocked off and repainted right on top of that. I've had it like this for about 4 years and it still looks great... but it sucks when it chips because it's very noticeable.
     
  13. darkjedi

    darkjedi Muay Thai expert

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    uh oh better get Maaco
     
  14. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    The rule of thumb I've always heard is that if a vehicle has just factory paint, or previous repairs that were done properly and aren't delaminating in any way that you can just scuff it and shoot over top of it, but if you've got delamination issues you should always either mechanically or chemically strip the vehicle down to the substrate for proper adhesion.

    Mainly the problem as the paint gets thicker is that it gets softer because it isn't bonded and cured to the substrate as well. That means it'll chip more easily, and scratch/swirl more easily.

    The upside is that softer paint is easier to polish but as the saying goes, "You can polish a turd, but all you'll have when you're done is a shiny turd." :mamoru:
     
  15. seismic

    seismic New Member

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    My car was originally silver, but now is covered up with a shitty paintjob in grey, followed by a good grey paintjob.

    I'm guessing your explanation is the reason that every chip I get seems to show silver paint... :o
     
  16. MartyFukstein

    MartyFukstein OT Supporter

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    I definitely admire your courage for taking on a job this big.

    Please DO NOT PAINT IT BLACK.

    Every little flaw in your filler and primer, base, and clear (get ready for runs, fisheyes, dirt, etc.) is going to show. Black makes these problems look 10x worse than light colors.

    You will probably pay to get your car repainted because it will look that bad.

    Paint it white and you'll have something you can live with.
     
  17. flynfrog

    flynfrog Cool isnt Cheap

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    I would start by chucking the CH gun the money you will save in repainting will pay off the first time you sand it back down to redoit.

    you are not shooting wet enough it looks like the primer isnt flashing out.


    dont feel to bad I have sprayed much worse looking things before. ps take your wheels off and put it on blocks if you dont want to ruin them
     
  18. Mycophiles

    Mycophiles OT Supporter

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    I think I've decided not to paint it black. ( I think ) but I don't know which color to paint it though.

    There has been no delamination. The epoxy went on this because of this:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The first time I used the gun I was shooting 2k and didn't have the tool to clean the inside first or after. I don't really remember if I shot acetone through it or not or how it ended up like this. I knew to clean the gun but like I said I didn't have the tool to clean it. The tip was on there GOOD. I had a wrench that sorta fit it and I could get a good amount of torque but not enough to get it off and I didn't want to strip it. I ordered the tip and have it now. I tried again to shoot the 2k and COULD NOT get it to come out correctly so I bought a 1.7mm tip.

    These are the results.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Even with the 1.7 tip I had to reduce it to 25% to get good build.

    I've sprayed a guide coat on it and actually blocking a car is not something for someone without patience. Understanding how sandpaper 'cuts' was something I had to learn from experience. Also, the patience needed to pay constant attention to detail is difficult.

    Now I'm in the situation where I have spots that will show up if I painted it a dark color but I'm not sure how to go about puttying them. (very shallow areas )

    I had stopped checking this thread because of posters not giving advice but mainly arguing. ( yes I still believe you DO NOT NEED A DA to paint a car.. give me a good documented reason you would need a DA and how hand sanding will not work... I don't get this yet. ) There are other points but I won't digress. (I'm aware of thickness problems as well as delamination )The car was sanded flat as you saw and the 2k was put on.

    It's oil-less air compressor and it has a water accumluation device (not at the gun thought) and a brand new filter AND it's sealed within a box and vented outside the garage.

    What's fish-eye's? The way it's all spotted? That was because I was trying to use a 1.4mm tip for epoxy. It simply would not work.

    If you guys like can try to be useful with all your experience I'd post up the blocking pictures I took. There is a lot I don't exactly know what to do with, but I'm not gong to post pictures simply so I can defend myself against an onslaught of attacks at my 1st attempt at painting a car. Jesus
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
  19. Mycophiles

    Mycophiles OT Supporter

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    I was wrong. It's a cornwel gun and there is a person giving me a devilbliss gun. (think that's how you spell that brand name.)
     
  20. Mycophiles

    Mycophiles OT Supporter

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    This is so much bullshit but I'll reply because you brought up what you say is 'dirt'. That was actually paint that was accumulating on the tip of the gun on the airholes and then flying off onto the car. The tip that did this was cleaned very well and the holes were perfectly round and the fan was perfect from the side and from the top so I'm pretty sure it was because of the thickness of the paint. ( but haaay... I don't know as I DON"T HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE BEFORE. MAYBE YOU DO??? ) When I used the 1.7 tip this did not happen at all.
     
  21. Mycophiles

    Mycophiles OT Supporter

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    I kept it in a heated garage for 2 days and then didn't touch it for 2 more days to make sure it flashed out. There are some types of paint that take forever to flash but this primer isn't one of them.

    The 'not shooting wet' enough has been dealt with.

    Here's a guestion though. People in this thread are speaking of having 'too much' paint on the car. Wouldn't you need to start off with 'wet' coverage to have too much paint? In my research I've read that you can't really tell how much paint goes on a car because of overspray. With the 1.4 tip there was literally a LAYER of dust that had settled on the car afterwards (before I put the fans in though which prob. make a big difference ) and the 2k had NONE. The 2k went twice as far as the epoxy and went on WET.
     
  22. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    Yeah, as a matter of fact I do.

    Fuck off jackass :cjerk:
     
  23. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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  24. Mycophiles

    Mycophiles OT Supporter

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    I was inferring that I knew you had experience and wanted you to post something helpful. If you want to be butt-hurt go right ahead faggot.
     
  25. BlazinBlazer Guy

    BlazinBlazer Guy Witness to The De-Evolution of Mankind.

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    Your poor attitude is what has lost you my willingness to help. Every time something is suggested to you, you just say it's bullshit and preach about what you think is the right way to do it. Why would I waste my time trying to be helpful when you don't listen?

    The only one being a fagot here is you :greddy:
     

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