Unethical Employer

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by johnQ, May 27, 2003.

  1. johnQ

    johnQ Guest

    Our company is looking for some C++ programmers. Despite the widespread availability of unemployed programmers in the United States, all the resumes they've decided to interview are from India. We get plenty of resumes from American programmers but apparently none are good enough. Yeah, it should be none of my business but this irks the fuck out of me. Is there any laws that prevent stuff like this from happening??
     
  2. Mikel

    Mikel .

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    How's that unethical?
     
  3. Mugatu

    Mugatu Ask me about market research. OT Supporter

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    The law is that they will have to prove that they cannot hire Americans before they can get work visas - they can interview all they want.

    Maybe they're just trying to see what's out there? Some companies conduct bogus interviews with no intention to hire anyone just to see what the current pool of applicants has to offer and other dumb, and in my view unfair, reasons.

    If they want to hire these people, it wont be easy unless they can prove that there are no Americans who can do the work. Unless these people are Americans or are already permanent residents in which case it makes no difference what their cultural background is.

    I know this because I came to the US from Canada under a work visa in 1996 - during the height of the boom. Even in those times, when there really was a shortage of technical people, it was a pain in the ass to get through all the red tape - and my company had a team of lawyers dedicated to it.

    It took me 5 years to get a greencard - and until then I was at the mercy of my employer. I was lucky that they didn't take advantage of this because I could have been screwed over royally. For instance, if they decided to fire me or lay me off, I would have had 30 days (if I remember correctly) to find another company to sponsor my visa (not cheap) or leave the country - despite the fact that I had already purchased a house, car, etc. and was living in America for years.

    If your company thinks they can get cheap labor by hiring foreigners during a downturn they might be in for a big and expensive headache of government bureaucracy.
     
  4. johnQ

    johnQ Guest

    It's unethical to foresake hiring a perfectly good American to hire an Indian. The reason they want to hire from India is because you can control them better. If they fuck up, you can send them back into poverty. This means you can keep slave-like working conditions and they'd be forced to accept them.

    Besides, it's not just unethical. It's ILLEGAL per our H1-B laws.
     
  5. Mugatu

    Mugatu Ask me about market research. OT Supporter

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    Maybe they're just trying to scare you guys, their current employees, into thinking that you will be replaced by "cheap, foreign labor."

    I don't condone that kind of BS but it is feasible that they would try it.
     
  6. Mikel

    Mikel .

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    Gotcha. I got the impression that they were considering farming out work to India.
     
  7. Astro

    Astro Code Monkey

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    You sure they're not contracting the work out to India? Or just hiring subcontractors? I don't know the laws, but does subcontracting count as employment?

    I'm running a small business, and as long as I keep subcontractors, I don't have to pay health insurance and other benefits. But if I hire the subcontractors as employees, then I've got health insurance and social security and taxes and such to worry about. If this company subcontracts out an Indian firm, then this company saves money in benefits, holds the Indian firm liable for the software, and get get rid of the Indian firm when the project is up.

    Welcome to the global economy!
     
  8. Bellos

    Bellos Guest

    This thing was happening over in Australia at Telstra.

    Telstra (Australia's largest telecommunications company) was hiring lot of Indians for cheap work. They would pay them low wages and they'd accept it, a lot like the fear of the Chinese in the gold rush days, when the Aussies feared them because they were going to come over here and get paid much lower than the Aussies, and thus take all the jobs.

    But it's no wonder people were questioning their hiring of these Indians for cheap prices, since it is taking away from Australian employment and it's not really ethical in the sense they are reducing expenses by hiring vulnerable foreigners, which I think is the point that johnQ is making.
     
  9. vwgeekdotcom

    vwgeekdotcom Silver Surfer

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    When I worked for MSN, they overcame those limitations by just moving support centers to india... Can people work from their current location (country) legally, or do the companies have to still prove that they cant hire someone locally to do the job?
     
  10. Astro

    Astro Code Monkey

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    I think the laws that say the company has to go and hire local talent first only applies to when they're hiring employees (aka: full blown benefits, vacation, etc -- subcontractors, contractors, consultants, outsourcing firms, etc do not apply). If the Indian firm is being used to outsource, then (and from my understanding) its perfectly legit - even if they're in a different country.

    Things get messy IF a person from India (and still in India - or maybe illegally in the USA/Canada) tried getting a job. If the employer hires them, the employer has to document that this person has special talent that was not available for a reasonable salary in the employer's country (they have to some how prove/document that they went and looked).

    My dad worked in Canada for several years and the company he was at had to prove they needed his talent and his talent could not be found locally.
     

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