Trying to decide on a new routine...

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by Alias, Apr 14, 2009.

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  1. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    Did a standard chest/tri, back/bi, legs, shoulders/traps split for a while, gained a lot of size. Then I switched basically to the routine in the sticky (shoulders/bi/tri, legs, chest, back).

    I've kinda slacked off the last couple months, lotta shit going on in my life, now I'm ready to hit it hard again.

    My biceps were the most lacking part of my body by the time I switched to the routine in the sticky but I'm thinking it's because my back/bi day was 4-5 back exercises then only 3 sets of curls :dunno: ... so what do you guys think of going back to chest/tri, back/bi, legs, shoulders/traps and just do more accessory work each day?
     
  2. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    Maybe something like...


    flat bench, incline bench, db bench, flys, overhead extensions, rope pushdowns, bench dips

    squats, leg press, leg curls, calf raises in the smith machine (10x10 with 10 sec rest breaks)

    pullups/pulldowns, db rows, cable rows, bb curls, db curls, hammer curls

    military press, incline db press, side raises, face pulls, bb shrugs, db shrugs


    then do abs a few times a week


    :dunno:
     
  3. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    i dont think you need 3 exercises for ur big movement (chest/back) and 3 for your accessory..doesn't make much sense.

    2 should be fine for your accessory work.
     
  4. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    Yeah that makes sense. I was just thinking since I wasn't seeing much development in my biceps with 4 exercises for the big movements and 1 set for accessory. I noticed that everything I had a dedicated day for, mostly chest, shoulders, legs, and back were the ones that blew up. Also, the arm day for the routine in the sticky has 3 exercises for each of tri/bi/shoulders but I guess after you already hit bench or rowing you wouldn't need as much :dunno:
     
  5. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    there ya go :cool:
     
  6. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    So you think that 3 major movements and 2 accessory is enough? 3 sets of 6-10 for each?



    flat bench, incline bench, flys, overhead extensions, rope pushdowns

    squats, leg press, leg curls, calf raises in the smith machine (10x10 with 10 sec rest breaks)

    pullups/pulldowns, db rows, cable rows, bb curls, db curls, wrist curls

    military press, incline db press, side raises, face pulls, bb shrugs, db shrugs
     
  7. BAC_311

    BAC_311 New Member

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    pullups, wg pulldowns, rows, reverse flys, deadlifts.























    all wingspan exercises
     
  8. Neo22

    Neo22 OT Supporter

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    or you could do
    chest/back
    legs
    shoulders/arms
    off
    repeat
     
  9. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    I usually don't have the energy to do that much volume per day (chest/back or shoulders/arms) :o
     
  10. itisaniceday

    itisaniceday New Member

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    You need to do more....:)

     
  11. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    I've been lifting very consistently but I just don't have the energy to do 3 sets each for 6 different compound movements. If you say you do have the energy to do it you're probably on something or not pushing yourself hard enough for each of the movements.
     
  12. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    i do 3 sets of 12-15 each...drop sets.. a LOT of reps
     
  13. Neo22

    Neo22 OT Supporter

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    Its not about volume, its about stimulus. Do 2 movements for each and be done. You don't need 5-6 exercises for back to hit it good.
     
  14. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    I usually go heavier, aiming for ~8 reps, besides warmup sets I never go light enough that I could even get past 10 reps.
    So you think it would be better to do 2 exercises twice a week (pretty much what it would be if you did 3 on 1 off) rather than 4 exercises once a week?
     
  15. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    andddd you're not seeing results... so yeah, go ahead and keep doing waht you're doing :coolugh:
     
  16. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    My lack of results are from slacking on routine/diet. Just curious, what's wrong with a rep range of 6-10?

    I wouldn't even call it a "lack of results", I was cutting between January and March so clearly I'm not going to be putting on size. I went for PR's last week and this week and I'm just as strong as I was at the peak of my bulk when I was 15 lbs heavier so I'm pleased :dunno:
     
  17. Neo22

    Neo22 OT Supporter

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    from an article off prof muscle.


    The volume many bodybuilders use to stimulate fatigue and get a good “pump”, often interferes with the ability to progressively put weight on the bar, due to the level of fatigue created. (Thus explaining why the average powerlifter is both stronger then and often makes better long term gains muscle mass wise then a lot of bodybuilders, who do “try” and put weight on the bar consistently, but are often not as successful).

    24. How much is required for stimulation?

    A muscle does not have to be driven into the ground balls to the wall with high volume in order to be “stimulated”. As little as one or two sets at an increased tension level above what your muscles are accustomed to can and will stimulate growth. That doesn't mean I recommend HIT training because that's not necessary either. But just as an illustration, if you don’t believe low volume can stimulate growth under the right circumstances, go jack yourself up on a chinup bar, start from the top, and with ONE arm only, lower yourself under control for 4-5 reps of single arm negatives. Use a stool to assist you going back up and then lower yourself with as much control as you can. Do just one set of that and come back in 2 days and tell me that high volume is necessary. Even one set of sub-maximal pushups can stimulate microtrauma and thus growth in a sedentary person. In contrast, it might take multiple sets with 400 pounds or more of bar weight in a bench press to stimulate growth in a veteran trainee. Loads should get heavier over time as your muscles ability to handle a given amount of tension improves.


    26. How long does the growth stimulus last?

    The chemical signals that “tell” a muscle to grow after it is damaged start to go away after about 48 hours. Therefore, optimal stimulation frequency for “size” gains precedes the full recovery of “strength”. People who pound a muscle into submission everytime they train and then wait a week before training again spend most of the time farting around waiting for full recovery to take place. They could be training more often so that their “growth signaling” mechanisms remain elevated more frequently.

    33. Taking a Look at a Pro Bodybuilder's Routine

    Let’s take a look at a typical pro bodybuilder and see how we might optimize the training process. Let’s say just for illustrative purposes that our bodybuilder is a shredded 300 pounds. That means he probably has about 280 pounds of “tension” related muscle and 20 pounds of “pump” related muscle. We could eliminate 80% of the volume and fatigue and just put him on a powerlifting heavy diet of nothing but singles and doubles at low volume and he’d still carry 280 pounds of muscle. Yes, he probably would shrink a bit. The 20 or so pounds he’d lose would mainly be glycogen storage and “pump”, related to the “fatigue” and “volume” of his bodybuilding training. Now, let’s take a look at one of his typical “bodybuilding” leg workouts.

    34. The Bodybuilder's Workout

    He has a 700 pound maximum squat and routinely works quads once per week for a total of 16 hardcore sets. He does 4 sets of squats, 4 sets of leg presses, 4 sets of hack squats, and 4 sets of leg extensions with reps running from 6 all the way up to 20. Most of his sets are in the 8-12 rep bracket. All sets are performed with a hardcore mindset and taken balls to the wall. Now, ask yourself this. How many of those total sets that he does for quads a contributing to his ability to squat 700 pounds? Do the hack squats and leg extensions he does at the end of his workout do much for his strength? Hardly. How about the leg presses? Well, 700 pound squatting powerlifters don’t do leg presses and it doesn’t seem to negatively affect their strength. So all that we’re left with is the squats.

    35. What's Creating His Squatting Strength?

    Therefore, it’s safe to deduce that this bodybuilder could reduce his leg workout to 4 sets of heavy squats and still maintain his ability to squat 700 pounds. Now, remember that “tension” related growth at a given volume is responsible for around 90% of muscle mass increases. Also remember that the bar weight on an exercise like the squat is a prime example of “tension”. So what does that tell us? Well, it tells us that he’s using 75% of his training volume to get maybe 10% of his growth. In other words, if the 4 sets of 8 reps squats are all that he needs for his 700 pound squat and ability to develop “tension” (responsible for 90% of his growth), all that the other 12 hardcore sets of leg presses, hacks, and leg extensions are really doing is contributing to fatigue, total work and giving him that extra 10% pump related growth.


    I'm not saying its the end all be all, but it all makes sense. Couple important things bolded.
     
  18. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    Good info.
     
  19. HalfPastGone

    HalfPastGone OT Supporter

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    i do 4 chest/3 tri and 4 back/3 bi

    my biceps are fucking terrible, granted i'm 6'8 though :dunno: but i know you're tall too.
     
  20. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    Yeah I think I want to go back to chest/tri, back/bi, legs, shoulders/traps. It takes way too fucking long to finish arm day and the other days I feel like I'm not doing anything.

    I'm 6'6" so getting big arms is always a challenge. My arms are the same size as my neck and they don't even look that big compared to the short guys.
     
  21. michael

    michael FLORIDA > *

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    i think bi's and tri's work better with blood volume, stretching the muscle and getting a huge pump ..which for me requires lots of reps, drop sets, super sets.
     
  22. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    Makes sense. During my first year I did 5-6 sets increasing weight/decreasing reps for my big3 and military press and did 3 sets of 6-10 for everything else. I was thinking of switching to 12-15 for bi/tri. I tried it the other day because of a comment I saw in someone else's thread and got a much better pump.
     
  23. Neo22

    Neo22 OT Supporter

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    Just think about how many times your hitting your delts with presses and the frequency as opposed to the amount of pulling you do. That split is going to most likely leave you imbalanced.
     
  24. Alias

    Alias OT Supporter

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    Good point.

    I do like your idea of chest/back, legs, shoulders/arms but I can't force myself hit the gym 5 or 6 times a week (which is what 3 on 1 off ends up being). Looking for a 4 day per week routine. Gotta find my balance, I'll burn out and end up worse than I started if I try to do 5 or 6 days a week.
     
  25. Neo22

    Neo22 OT Supporter

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    Upper
    Lower
    off
    Upper
    Lower
    off
    off
     
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