True knowledge comes from admitting that you know nothing

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Falconer, Jul 5, 2007.

  1. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    A year ago I wouldn't have admitted this.

    Right now I'm living in a somewhat rural area about 90 minutes outside of Chicago (part of the reason I have such a long ass commute every day). When I go out, even to the grocery store, I regularly see HB7 and 8s (8 is about as hot as they get here) on the arms of guys that I would not consider attractive. I mean dudes who go out in public in wifebeaters, have tattoos all over their arms/shoulders, look like they haven't showered in a few days, crooked teeth, and can't speak proper English. Everything they do reeks of tackiness and/or trashiness, yet somehow they pull decent women who seem to be a few levels above them in looks, class, and socioeconomic status. These chicks are well dressed, usually have nice, tight figures, white teeth, proper makeup, and nice hair. I see this often enough that it cannot be random.

    A year ago this would have boggled my mind beyond comprehension.

    Well, to be honest, it still kinda does, but I'm beginning to understand why this happens and therefore accept it.

    I have also added a new rating scale by which I just male/women, which I think I got the idea for from on of Yail's posts... a masculinity/femininity scale. This scale goes along side the "physical attractiveness" scale. This idea hit me when I saw a chick who wasn't terribly physically attractive (she was a 6.5 or 7), but something about her gave off extremely feminine vibes and I realized I was very attracted to her altho at first I couldn't explain why. Usually, when it's physical attraction, I can explain exactly why I'm attracted to someone.

    So I applied this idea to men, too. I toyed around with the idea that chicks could (subconsciously) rank a guy on a manliness scale, which is attractive to them. So a guy could be a 5 physically (not that chicks care about looks, anyway, but you know what I mean), but if he displays extremely masculine traits, he would be very attractive to her.

    So I can only assume that this is what's happening when I see these classy-looking chicks with trashy-looking guys. Apparently whatever they're doing is spiking their masculinity ratings and therefore attracting hot chicks. It surely can't be anything physically that they're doing. They're not rich so it's not that. They don't have nice cars so it's not that (unless huge, rusty, falling apart pickup trucks with no exhaust are masculine). They're not well-educated or well-spoken so it's not that.

    It also reinforces my belief that I've been focusing on the wrong aspects of myself for years. All of the things I consider desirable and attractive do not significantly boost me on the "masculine" scale and therefore don't really increase girl's (initial) attraction to me. Of course, once they get to know me, I'm awesome. But not initially. I've tried to make myself look good, have white teeth, be educated, well-spoken, classy, cultured, financially competent and stable, etc., but those are all like sub-characteristics of a small portion of a woman's attraction values. If I just didn't give a shit and wore wifebeaters and drove a huge pickup I'd probably pull way more chicks.

    So now I'm at the inner-conflict stage. On the one hand, I really wouldn't want to touch a chick who has been fucked by some trashy dude because I automatically disqualify her for being attracted to someone of low value and who is physically kind of gross (I mean seriously, she had her tongue in his nasty butter-teeth mouth) (old Falconer thinking), but on the other hand, as much as I don't want to accept it, I understand why she would have been attracted to him because attraction is not a choice (new Falconer thinking) and that's just how things work.

    It's like, I'm starting to get why things work this way, but I still don't understand it. It's like I understand how gravity works, and I understand the effects of it, and I can predict what will happen based on the laws of gravity, but I couldn't explain it to you.

    I'm sure this post sounded bitter, but it wasn't meant to be. It was meant to be narrative and neutral in position.
     
  2. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    nice post. congrats bro. only once you hvae lost everything are you free to do anything

    that said, afai can tell, there's nothing wrong with having a problem with not liking a woman for dating/doing sexual things with some scrubby looking dude who has no aspirations in life. the woman stlil has a CHOICE of whether she's going to act on that unconscious attraction. and if a girl doens't have a problem with hanging with a guy and dating a guy who has no goals in life and has shit for values, then that is a reflection of HER
     
  3. Yail Bloor

    Yail Bloor OT Supporter

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    The men you speak of:

    Are masculine

    Do not attempt to "hide" their sexuality

    See what they want and take it

    Most of these women would probably prefer these men's characteristics in a more polished package. But guess what? Most of the more polished men are weak-minded sissies who supplicate to women and she is not attracted to them.

    Its slim pickings for the women you describe.

    If more men would get their heads out of their asses and quit being afraid of BEING A MAN, then I think women in general would benefit.

    And never forget, the more feminine women are almost always attracted to the more masculine men.

    In summary, she's doing the best she can with the available pool of men.

    This is yet another stunning example of how rare an attractive man is, and why an attractive man is THE PRIZE.
     
  4. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    i've actually been thinking about this... i've also realized that i'm attracted to feminiinity and sexuality VERY much, not just aesthetic sexiness. Now what I'm wondering is what do we want the girl to believe is the reason we like her when we try to get her? The true genuine answer is that it's her femininity and sexuality and looks; and though these concepts are related, they are not identical; and we KNOW telling them we like them for their looks isn't right...

    so is it effective to say we like them for their femininity and the qualities that come along with it? or do we stick with other methods of qualification - they're cool, they have passions, they have a strong sense of values - and other things that are almost masculine traits but are still very attractive
     
  5. Yail Bloor

    Yail Bloor OT Supporter

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    I want the most feminine woman I can find who is also physically attractive.

    I meet physically attractive women all the time who are not feminine enough. I'm attracted to her body, but I know we couldn't date because she isn't going to submit to me, and I'm not going to stop trying to dominate her, so we would constantly butt heads.
     
  6. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    absolutely, femininity is super fucking attractive. but in terms of what you qualify her on - i don't think i've ever learned anything about what it's supposed to be in terms of femininity vs. not
     
  7. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    :werd:
    I met this amazing woman once, had a super fantastic body and a great personality. She was forward with me and seemed to be really interested in me. Funny thing was, I had zero interest in sleeping with her.

    It was strange to me because I've always loved women that work out are toned and in great shape, which she was. But I just couldn't get interested in her.

    The main reason...she wasn't feminine at all. She had a butch hair cut, a gruff accent and was really aggressive with her communication and it was a total turn off....even when she's wearing spandex and practically putting her vagina on my nose!
     
  8. Perfect example of femininty (sp?): I had this woman walk into my job, but I didn't really pay attention to her at first, because she wasn't physically attractive to me, but when I took a second glance I was beyond attracted to her, because she was so feminine I couldn't even get myself up to say hello. On a looks scale she was maybe a 5 or a 6 but damn something about her, made me freeze up. I felt so odd it wasn't even funny. I then knew she was probably one of the most feminine females I would come across. So Yail you are right. As guys we want extremely feminine females and as guys at least I myself know I am attracted to that.
     
  9. Abomb

    Abomb New Member

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    for the sake of inexperieced readers post the 'manly, sexual' characteristics that are attracting the woman. what qualities of being a man and not giving a fuck do you speak of?
     
  10. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    check my (jkidd5's) posts in the sticky on identity and what attracts women
     
  11. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I'm confused now. That post is basically telling me that it's ok for me to judge and disqualify a woman based on her past actions.

    But when I say something about a woman's moral actions, or number of past parterns, you get all on my case about Madonna/Whore and say I can't do that.

    So can you or can't you judge a woman based on her choices (one of which is being a whore in her past)?
     
  12. calisteph6

    calisteph6 Active Member

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    I like manly guys...and I'll say that most of them are pretty much dumbasses/retards/idiots/whatever else bad you wanna call them. I usually end up dating pussies and it goes bad, just because I can't stand dating an idiot. It's a whole double edged sword thing. I'm not attracted to a guy who can't reign me in...but I feel I'm too intelligent to put up with the few 'manly men' I know. Maybe one day I'll find a decent one who will be interested in me.
     
  13. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Sounds like you're noticing an inversely proportional relationship between "manliness" and "intelligence."

    Interesting.
     
  14. calisteph6

    calisteph6 Active Member

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    I mean...I'm sure there are some out there; it just seem I've run into idiots and flakes. I know one that is an awesome guy and I had a huge crush on him for awhile, unfortunatly he's not interested :wtc:, but we're still friends. I also know 'pussies' who are generally idiots. I mean come on, I usually date 22-25 year old males, not exactly known for being the brightest anyway...
     
  15. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    'ive posted a few times that there IS a difference between a woman who has sex with a man relatively quickly and one who has sex with a lot of men... basically , since women only have sex with guys who are higher value, if a girl has sex with a lot of guys, she tinks a lot of guys are higher value, or that she is low value.

    now, that, you DO have a madonna whore complex (as do i and its something i'm working on) and it IS bad and it's hard to tell when it's YOUR stuff or when there's actually a problem with the girl.

    Also, if a woman has done shit in her past that might make you uncomfortable, you have a lot of things to consider: has she changed since then (deep identity level change is hard); will she do it again?; is it even osmething that's worth getting upset about or is it just my own problems; if i was strong and secure with myself, would i know whether or not this was a deal breaker?

    Now, what I posted above has NOTHING to do with madonna/whore. If a woman dates guys who have no drive in life, for an extended period of time, if A HUGE PART OF HER LIFE is devoted to spending time with someone who lacks any sort of values that you have... then it's a good bet that she probably lacks those values too; who you associate with is a reflection of who you are. now, of course, people change and girls' frames are very malleable, but nevertheless....
     
  16. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    STOP IT FALCONER. STOP IT man go read the last post of yours i responded to along these lines. blind spots backwards raitonalizations and seeing what you want to see isntead of what's actually there.

    intelligent people try to find reasons and rationalizations for everything - unfortunately there's no reaosn or rationalization for valuing a certain thing over another, for believing you are entitled to get hot girls, to take what you want, to have a certain purpose in life, to be happy, etc. That's why a lot of "intellectual" people lack those things. But that's an effect of trying to use science logic and reason in fields where they are inapplicable
     
  17. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    All lol aside, it's very true that in order to be truly intelligent, you need to admit that you don't know anything, and seek knowledge out. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know, and the more humble you become. Another reason why arrogance is such a sure sign of ignorance.
     
  18. calisteph6

    calisteph6 Active Member

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    I think someone who had both would totally be the total package...even if they wern't that good looking. :drool:
     
  19. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    My only issue has been with not wanting a LTR/wife who has a promiscuous past. Whether this stems from my own insecurities or M/W complex or whatever doesn't matter. I don't care if she fucked her ex 500000 times. But if she's fucked 500000 guys once, that's disgusting to me. I eventually want a wife who regards sex as something special between people who are in love, not just something you do with anyone because you're horny. This is definately a moral judgement I am making. Is that M/W?
     
  20. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Dude that's exactly what she said, and she even agreed with me.

    Manly guys are dumbasses.

    Pussies (non-manly guys) are not idiots (the opposite of what manly guys are).

    How is that not exactly what I said? Inversely proportional relationship.

    I wasn't stating it as fact, I just said "sounds like..." relating to her experiences.
     
  21. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    that's just not true dude and you know it. there's a lot of other problems you have with female sexuality
     
  22. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    you're trying to find reasons to be depressed and that the cynical view of life is the right one and how being intelligent > being manly
     
  23. calisteph6

    calisteph6 Active Member

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    I'm not really sure I totally agree...I think a lot of the so-called pussies are idiots too, just less vocal about it, so it's kind of on the downlow. One of the seriously stupidest guys I ever dated was from my college (a junior who dropped out after junior year). He was also the biggest pussy I've ever dated...I walked all over this guy. Sometimes I think these manly guys are just assholes who are kinda immature and that's why they seem stupid. I really haven't figured it out yet at all, just throwing ideas out there. Every guy is different, so I can't even make a generalization...I just know I have bad luck with all of them. :rofl:
     
  24. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Ok maybe she didn't agree with me.
     
  25. calisteph6

    calisteph6 Active Member

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    A little...but you are too black and white... there is no black and white with people. I think the vag in general tries to confine people to two boxes often and that's just not how it is, every person is different.
     

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