Torvalds pans Apple with 'utter crap' putdown

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by deusexaethera, Feb 7, 2008.

  1. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    zing! :eek3:

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    Torvalds pans Apple with 'utter crap' putdown

    Nick Miller
    February 5, 2008 - 2:27PM

    Apple's much-touted new operating system, OS X Leopard, is in some ways worse than Windows Vista, says the founder of the Linux open source project, Linus Torvalds.

    Torvalds was in Melbourne last week for the linux.conf.au conference and was invited to pass judgement on OS X versus Windows Vista in a wide-ranging interview.

    "I don't think they're equally flawed - I think Leopard is a much better system," he said. "(But) OS X in some ways is actually worse than Windows to program for. Their file system is complete and utter crap, which is scary."

    He poured scorn on the modern trend to treat a new version or update of an operating system as a cause for major celebration and marketing.
    "An operating system should be completely invisible," he said. "To Microsoft and Apple (it is) a way to control the whole environment ... to force people to upgrade their applications and hardware."

    As for his own operating system, Linus said the most exciting developments were Linux's improving green credentials, and a push into mobile devices such as the One Laptop per Child project and Asus's new ultra-cheap Eee PC.

    The latter, he said, could be a sign that Asian hardware manufacturers were starting to bypass Western commercial operating systems in order to get more control over their products.

    "That's the primary area that open source (software like Linux) is useful. Software is really expensive to produce and takes years. If you're a hardware company you can't really afford that, you either have to be controlled from the outside or take a pre-existing software stack that you can make changes to."

    Linux would be an obvious choice for anything from full-blown PCs to phones or video players, Torvalds said.

    "I think it's one pretty exciting possibility and it's where the market really wants to go," he said. "The hardware in a mobile device now outweighs anything in a desktop 15 years ago - which is where Linux came from. The (Linux) kernel is already being used in things like cell phones, but the problems have been in the UI (user interface)."

    He said he finally saw Linux as able to boast genuine green credentials, after years of hard work.

    He and fellow programmers modified almost every part of the operating system's core to improve power management. They also enhanced the ability to track down the most power-hungry parts of a hardware and software system.

    "Everybody wants to be power-aware," he said. "It's not just that you want to be green - it's eating up your batteries."

    Linus also praised Google for its contribution to the development of open source software, after a shaky start in which it had been a "black hole" for talented programmers.
     
  2. VladTemplar

    VladTemplar New Member

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  3. ady

    ady New Member

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    Well I wouldn't say it was utter crap, but it certainly is old and has issues. Hopefully the transition to ZFS will fix this. Being that he doesn't elaborate on it, it's hard to see what his actual issues with it are. Other than that he just comes across as the typical opensource advocate crying about software + capitalism.
     
  4. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    meh

    Linux kinda fizzled, imo. It had the opportunity to explode and it didn't. It will continue to grow -- and I support that -- but its not going to be a true "desktop replacement". It's simply presenting itself for one-off products and as a solid base for lightweight hardware.
     
  5. VladTemplar

    VladTemplar New Member

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    :ugh:
     
  6. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    instead of abusing the smilie, how about you articulate your thoughts?
     
  7. VladTemplar

    VladTemplar New Member

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    You'd be surprised how many ISPs run almost entirely on Linux. Hell, not only their servers, but every piece of equipment as well. Linux is huge.
     
  8. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    on servers and routers -- sure... But not on their desktops.

    And note there is a difference between a desktop and a "thin client".
     
  9. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    It doesn't need to explode to become a major market force. It would certainly have helped, though. Still, given the other major OSes, Linux at least has the benefit of being the one with the most actual advancement at the moment -- maybe only because it's lagging behind, but advancement still brings attention.

    Oh, and I'm using it on one of my machines now, and I don't wish I had Windows on that machine. I tend to think that means it is a good substitute for Windows.
     
  10. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    its been how many years and they still can't get proper multi mon support working where windows can behave properly.... absurd.
     
  11. Sexual Vanilla

    Sexual Vanilla New Member

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    As long as Linux forces the average user into the pains of a CLI to install a seemingly common driver for something as simple as a wireless card, it will never be as ubiquitous as Windows or OSX...plain and simple.
     
  12. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Yeah Jolly, that's the one must-have feature the market is drooling over.
     
  13. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    This is what I mean about *ubuntu bulldozing the competition -- they are actively developing new graphical interfaces to edit Linux's various and sundry .conf files.
     
  14. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

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    Well he says the os itself is better than windows, just that he doesn't like the file system.
    But if the os works well enough to be better than windows, how bad can the file system really be?
     
  15. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    I dunno, but it makes me wonder: if OSX is based on BSD, could you run OSX on any *nix filesystem, like ext3 or JFS?
     
  16. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

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    The filesystem does suck. ZFS is under works for OS X. It is needed. And the file layout for OS X is stupid too.
     
  17. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    not surprising. Apple was never very good with software. Really more a bunch of hackers stringing things together.
     
  18. trouphaz

    trouphaz New Member

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    i don't know, man. as far as i'm concerned, Apple put together the first real desktop *NIX operating system. they are the first one who put an actual, working gui over a very stable UNIX core. i know Linux is headed in that direction with Ubuntu, but they still have quite a ways to go from what i've heard. so, i'd give them credit for that.
     
  19. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    all of the osx problems are WITH the gui.

    Apple took a stable platform (BSD) and added their own gui on it... but the gui is far from stable.
     
  20. samm

    samm Next in Line

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    care to elaborate on the unstable gui?
     
  21. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    you've never used it, before?

    Have you seen all the updates that come out for it?

    If you ask a mac user, they'll give you the cool-aid official marketing brochure... But if you just read their threads you'll see how much they complain.
     
  22. samm

    samm Next in Line

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    I've used mac os x since the public beta. I'm not sure what you mean by updates.
     
  23. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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  24. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    What exactly does Aqua do that X can't do? Was there a functional requirement for replacing it, or did they just do it for shits and giggles?
     
  25. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Please tell me you're not serious..... X is a piece of shit.
     

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