GUN Top ten self defense loads

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by taco, Mar 30, 2003.

  1. taco

    taco Guest

    Just read an article by Ed Sanow on his top ten self defense loads. Since this question has been asked before I will post the list.

    Fed .40 S&W 155 grain hydra shock 97% One shot stops

    Fed .357 mag 125 JHP 96

    Fed .45 acp 230 grain hydra shock 96

    rem .45 acp 185 grain golden saber 95

    fed 9mm 115 grain jhp +P+ 9bple 93

    Cor bon .40 S&W 135 JHP 92

    Win .44 mag 210 grain silvertip 90

    Triton .357 sig 125 grain rainier JHP 91

    Win 41 mag 175 grain Silvertip 90

    Fed .40 S&W 180 grain Hydra shock 90


    Notice the hydra shock made the list more than any other bullet.

    Here is what he had to say about frangibles.

    "Controversial perhaps, but also missing from my list are all the frangible defensive loads like the glaser safety slug, magsafe, and cor-bon beesafe. These loads are extremely effective in certain home-defense scenarios. However, their limited tactical penetration that gives these loads an advantage in many scenarios becomes a serious disadvantage in other scenarios."
     
  2. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    well, since you mentioned "one-shot stops", i'll start with that. the ONLY one shot stop you can guarantee is the one to the base of the brain, whereby the control center for all involuntary bodily functions is destroyed. if you hit a man in the heart, he still has enough blood in his brain to shoot at you for 10 seconds. now, if you're both bleeding to death, then what good does your shot to his heart do?

    that said, hydra-shocks come apart. i don't know what the heck this guy is basing his decision off of, but i guarantee it's not any ballistic tests he's done. because hydra-shocks do not have bonded jackets, they shed their jackets, eliminating any control over expansion, and completelty eliminating the very thing that keeps them from disintegrating. therefore, they disintegrate. this action dissipates their energy very quickly, cutting their penetration down GREATLY. penetration is what you need in order to guarantee hitting a major organ (you need 10-12 inches of penetration), since you won't be able to take delicate aim for the person's head to try to hit the base of their brain.

    hydra shocks are a generation 2 hollow point. i believe the most current design is a generation 5. there is a reason people improved upon the older design: it didn't work effectively. sure, it puts a hole in the guy. sure, the guy might bleed to death. but if he's still shooting at you because your round didn't open up a large enough permanent wound cavity, all it takes is one shot from him to put you in the same boat. defense loads are not something to take lightly, since your life can hang on them in bad situations. that's precisely the reason you carry a concealed weapon. why go into that situation with anything less than the best. hydra-shocks are far from the best.

    now, the other rounds, i don't know enough about. but frangible ammo, when dealing with pistols is worse than hydrashocks for penetration. the only mechanisms you have to defend yourself with are penetration and expansion. well, there is NO expansion, and hardly any permanent wound cavity with frangible ammo, and very little penetration. if you cannot hit a man in center mass at 21 feet or less (the legal engagement range for most situations), then you are in sorry shooting shape. you need to practice. if you practice, then you don't have to worry about punching holes in walls in your house. frangible ammo will not go through a car window, a car door, or anything solid like that. thus, it is a severe decrease in the number of situations in which you can use it.

    i wish i knew about some of the other rounds on the market, but i have done my homework on hydrashocks, and i'm a firm believer in speer gold dots, as is the FBI, which is why i say something about them all the time. i've yet to hear anyone say anything that counters my opinions, except that other people recommend them. and who the hell is this Ed fellow?
     
  3. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

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    The best way to interpret Sanow's data is to take the one shot stop % and halve it for an accurate guesstimate.

    Besides, anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice. ;) "Ammo's cheap, life ain't."

    i'll stick with my FBI issue 165gr Golden Sabers. :)
     
  4. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    yeah, the sabers and silvertips are two rounds i know nothing about. which is why i ignored them.
     
  5. taco

    taco Guest

    he gives a definition of one shot stops. it doesn't mean instantly fall to the ground dead and this was based on evan marshall's study and ballistic gellatin tests.

    The pictures shown of the clothed 10% ballistic gellatin don't show the hydra shocks coming apart any more than any other bullet. They also penetrate just fine.

    I use cor-bon 165 jhp 40 S&W not hydra shocks but I just thought I would tell everyone about an article based on facts and tests that was written by a respected author.

    The one shot stops percentage is taken from actual shooting data. The one shot stop means that the circumstances of the actual shooting with a shot in the torso met the requirements of what they call a one shot stop.
     
  6. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    you know, everyone says that, about the shotgun thing, but i'd much rather him hear the sound of the charging handle and bolt on my AR. i'm going to refer you to one of the other threads where i explain how much better an AR is for home defense, if your halls aren't narrow.
     
  7. taco

    taco Guest

    a shotgun is superior for home defense because. you shouldn't be searching your house anyways.

    you should round up everyone that belongs in the house and bring them all into the same room. call the police and stay put hiding in the corner of the room. keep the shot gun pointed at the door. since everyone that belongs in the house is already in the room fill the door with buckshot. let the police wander around the house looking for this guy.

    a shotgun will stop an intruder faster than an ar. a shotgun will be easier to hit with than an ar. and a shotgun fills a doorway better than an ar.

    9 .33 inch balls > 1 .223 inch bullet.
     
  8. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    balls do not yaw or fragment. they simply punch through, making very tiny permanent wound cavities. 30 rounds of 5.56 M193 > 5-8 rounds of #00 buck, even with a semi-auto shotgun. multiple intruders? what if you can't get everyone into one room without running into someone? i can think of so many ways that your theory would only work in a theoretical situation.

    first of all, what if you do get the family into one room? what's to prevent him from shooting through walls into your room?

    what if people are spread out at opposite ends of the house? not all houses have every bedroom next to each other. hell, my house doesn't, and i sure as hell wouldn't want my family running around trying to get into my room. they'd have a long way to go when i don't know where some bastard is in my house. also, if this is at night, unless your family is used to being woken up and having to run for cover, you're going to have a hard time getting sleepy people to do what you tell them, especially in a hurry. that is, IF those sleepy people even do anything when they realize what time it is.

    also, as i've said before, 5.56 nato has better ballistic results, and will not go through every wall in your house if you (somehow) miss. it will not just punch through a person, unlike buckshot. #00 buck, due to its ballistic properties, just passes through things, therefore, it disperses very little energy into what it hits. this means that although you hit the guy, you also just shot into the room behind him, and possibly an occupant of that room. (9) .33" balls= (9) .33" holes. (1) 5.56 FMJ= [​IMG]
     
  9. smell my finger

    smell my finger strive nonetheless towards beauty and truth,

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    big & fast > big & slow

    big & fast > small & fast


    10mm for me, please :)
     

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