MMA Tim Sylvia vs. BJ Penn

Discussion in 'OT Bar' started by yawgmoth, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. yawgmoth

    yawgmoth nine > ten OT Supporter

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    Yeah obviously with that title I'm going to get flamed for this, but I have a legitimate question/point to raise/ask. (plus ya know... I'm drunk so...)

    I recall BJ saying a while ago that he would fight Tim Sylvia, and Dana White saying BJ would maul Kimbo. I never gave the latter statement any credit (well I'm sorta wondering, considering Kimbo's performance tonight) but how can anyone assume a lightweight can't take the same punch a heavyweight could? Weight doesn't have much to do with someone's ability to take a hit. Do I think BJ could beat Kimbo? No not exactly, but "on the street" I know smaller guys have often beat bigger guys, and the ufc was built around this (Royce Gracie). Obviously Tim Sylvia could do what Machida did to some degree when fighting someone smaller like Penn, but Could Kimbo? With all his cards in the stand up game, could he knock Penn out simply becuase he's bigger than him? Penn can take a punch from sherk, but what makes someone like say ,Arlovski, tougher in the skull than him?

    Flame away if you want, I'm just curious to what you guys think, and since I can't bullshit with you all in a bar I have to do it on a forum. :( sad wavey
     
  2. Mega-JC: Da Return

    Mega-JC: Da Return Tiger Knee!

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    This is a sherdog thread :squint:
     
  3. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    Skull thickness or hardness doesn't really matter because I don't think any human is capable of breaking another human's skull with their fist. What does matter is mass overall size. Each of Kimbo's punches probably travels an extra 2 feet and has 50 more pounds behind it than Sherk's punches. The larger neck and back muscles of a guy like Kimbo also give him much better cushioning against a lighter guy's punches.
     
  4. yawgmoth

    yawgmoth nine > ten OT Supporter

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    :) yeah yeah I'll wait till drag on or humungus flames me to be sure of that
     
  5. yawgmoth

    yawgmoth nine > ten OT Supporter

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    That's true, however I'm not questioning Tim's and Sherks Punches, but say... big nog's and bj's skulls. A person's "toughness" can't be directly compared to their weight, can it?
     
  6. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    I think it depends, but in most cases bigger guy = harder to KO. Bigger people have larger, heavier heads with more back and neck muscle that supports it, making it harder to move so there is less chance of the brain being rapidly accelerated. Obviously if you take BJ and put 100 pounds on him it doesnt mean he will get significantly more able to resist a punch, but if you resized him like in mspaint by 150% then yes he would probably be harder to KO.
     
  7. Redneck Shinobi

    Redneck Shinobi Well Jules, the funny thing about my back is that

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    Well weight does have a lot to do with the power of the punch. Sylvia is tall as fuck and makes weight. Your first mistake was going online drunk because your argument only gets worse from here. Arlovski has a weak chin and I bet Sylvia doesn't throw sissy punches. He does have a lazy jab, but so does Penn in later rounds.
     
  8. yawgmoth

    yawgmoth nine > ten OT Supporter

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    Nog could take Tim Sylvia's punches. And as for AA's weak chin, I'm somewhat skeptical about that considering in their five round snooze fest, Tim never knocked him out even though AA was performing like shit. And Penn did alright with his jabs in round three Two of them sent Sherk into the cage before the knee put him down.
     
  9. Redneck Shinobi

    Redneck Shinobi Well Jules, the funny thing about my back is that

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    Nog also could take Fedors punches, so whats your point? If you look at his previous fights, like watch them if you haven't he has eaten big blows before.

    You hit the nail on the head with snooze fest, that's why there wasn't a knock out. No action to cause it, Tim is a counter puncher, and when he pushes the pace it's kinda laughable. You gotta remember for his size he can stay in that pocket and make bank. I'd actually like to see HMC vs Sylvia, just to see who I believe is the better striker (HMC) would win, but I have my doubts if Tim took him down.
     
  10. Ghost of Swayze

    Ghost of Swayze Ofcourse you mad

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    Well BJ would simply bulk up to 220 like he has in the past and just close in and take the fight, literally out of Tims reach
     
  11. ZZex

    ZZex New Member

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  12. TigreTek

    TigreTek omega member OT Supporter

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    i'm glad to see that we had some decent answers in here. :o
     
  13. Mejnoon

    Mejnoon Active Member

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    I think BJ could beat Sylvia or Kimbo. Slip a punch, duck under, hop on the back, game over.
     
  14. darkjedi

    darkjedi Muay Thai expert

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    harder to out wrestle bigger guy, bigger guy has reach advantage and harder punches because of extra weight. bigger guy will be able to dictate wether fight will be standing or on the ground.
     
  15. TigreTek

    TigreTek omega member OT Supporter

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    see sudo vs. butterbean
     
  16. darkjedi

    darkjedi Muay Thai expert

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    kimbo aint no butterbean.
     
  17. Redneck Shinobi

    Redneck Shinobi Well Jules, the funny thing about my back is that

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    Yeah was gonna point out Sudo is a genius at grappling, but so is Penn. I dunno though Butterbean just sucks at anything grounded. He gets defeated everyday trying to get out of bed.
     
  18. yawgmoth

    yawgmoth nine > ten OT Supporter

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    That's all true, but technique > size and muscle. Although I'm sure anyone will tell you they hate it when bigger people power out of submissions during training (I think some people on this forum were talking about that) I think the weight classes of MMA have led people to believe that size that important. When level of skill is equal, then it becomes a factor, but it should be weighed (no pun intended) with other things as well.
     
  19. darkjedi

    darkjedi Muay Thai expert

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    true that technique > size and muscle. but Kimbo does have some devastating punching power and killer instinct. the true question is, can BJ's skills be enough to overcome that plus his HUGE size advantage?

    You're crazy if you think BJ can outstrike Kimbo.. and I think Kimbo with his size advantage will almost be impossible for BJ to take down.
     
  20. NinjaBread

    NinjaBread New Member

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    I thought Sherdawg was where people tediously dissected fights that would never happen
     
  21. yawgmoth

    yawgmoth nine > ten OT Supporter

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    The title was more an attention grabber for my point of smaller people taking the same punch as heavier people.

    But hey, thanks for feeling brave enough to post, lurker :)
     
  22. Kuet

    Kuet New Member

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    Insert fire here

    jk

    you want my honest opinion ??

    I get what you say about in street fights smaller guys knock out bigger guys, but often its an unexpected punch or the bigger guy cant fight worth shit and the smaller guy can. In a professional fight, kimbo would knock out bj with a good shot, and weight has everything and nothing to do with it.
    It doesnt matter how much a guy weighs- if he can take a good shot. so no, it doesnt matter.
    However, in professional fights a smaller guy getting hit by someone much bigger well...... Then it has to do all with weight.

    come on man. But its ok you were drunk.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2008
  23. Kuet

    Kuet New Member

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    Mike tyson- 1000 lbs/ square inch punch.
    I remember long time ago i read in a magazine he broke the guys whole face pretty much- with one punch.
     
  24. Kuet

    Kuet New Member

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    you are drunk - it was an uppercut/ hook combo that put sherk into the cage which led to the PERFECTLY timed knee - Not a couple jabs.
     
  25. whup

    whup I wish you had children and.. so that I could step

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    It's all theory.

    There is no definitive info out there on the science of knock outs. What exactly causes the knock out and why, and what properties need to be met for someone to be knocked out (or knock someone out). Hard and dangerous to research though heh.
     

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