GUN Thought this was intresting.

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by zxghostrider, Oct 26, 2007.

  1. zxghostrider

    zxghostrider Sometimes you gotta hop on two wheels

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    Sorry if it's a repost. This letter written in response to someone wanting to ban all guns in America.



    POSTED LETTER
    Letter to My Anti-Gun Friends
    by Angel Shamaya
    with contributing editors
    Reprinted from the free KeepAndBearArms.org/.com Email
    Report
    Inspired by This Document

    Dear Anti-Gun People,

    I am opening a dialogue with you to better comprehend
    your position through reviewing your responses to a
    few questions. After you've read my questions and the
    provided links, I'll answer any questions you may have
    regarding my strong belief in the right to keep and
    bear arms, and I hope you will truthfully answer the
    questions I pose to you below:

    1) Do you believe the government is always honest with
    the people?

    2) A woman who is unarmed is easy prey for an armed
    rapist. But there are many places in America where a
    woman cannot legally carry a gun to protect herself
    from attack. Do you think it is better for a woman to
    be raped than to fend off a rapist in self-defense
    with a gun? If so, why? If not, then do you advise
    women to resist armed rapists with their bare hands?

    3) Britain has effectively disarmed its citizens.
    Their own Olympic shooters had to ship guns out of the
    country or turn them in to be destroyed. But if more
    gun control decreases crime, why is Britain
    experiencing an epidemic of gun-related violence? (See
    http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/gun)

    4) Washington, D.C. has a per capita murder rate of 69
    per 100,000 with the strictest gun control laws in the
    country. Indianapolis, with much more gun freedom,
    only has 9 murders per 100,000 residents. If disarming
    people makes cities safer, how can this be?

    5) There are tens of thousands of cases of people
    getting no response from the 911 system--including
    scores of cases where people were still wounded or
    killed after having dialed 911. If a criminal is
    already inside your house, garage, or car, is dialing
    911 really the most effective way of immediately
    dealing with the situation?
    (See
    http://www.channel2000.com/news/sto...713-124534.html)


    6) Police also have no legal requirement to protect
    you when you call for help. People attacked by
    criminals and injured after calling police for help
    cannot sue in court and win. This places the
    responsibility of personal protection in the hands of
    each individual. Does it make sense that the
    individual be denied the same access to tools for
    self-protection that police enjoy? (See
    http://rkba.org/research/kasler/protection and also
    http://dial911.itgo.com)

    7) Every national gun licensing and registration in
    history has led to confiscation. Gun registration in
    America has already led to confiscation in New York
    and California. (See
    http://www.sierratimes.com/arjj020700.htm) If you
    support gun registration in America, would you please
    explain how having their guns registered helped the
    citizens in China, Nazi Germany, Cambodia, the Soviet
    Union, or Uganda? Do you think gun registration was
    beneficial to the Jews in Germany, the Cambodians
    under Pol Pot, or the Chinese under Mao Tse Tung? (See
    http://www.jpfo.org/L-laws.htm.)

    8) Why are the media and the government working in
    unison to disarm America when the most in-depth
    scientific studies on the subject of private gun
    ownership shows that more guns in the hands of
    citizens REDUCES violent crime? (See
    http://www.reasonmag.com/0001/fe.js.cold.html) What
    agenda for the US do they have planned that requires
    disarming the citizens of our country?

    9) Criminals get guns, knives, and bludgeons any time
    they wish, and they disobey whatever laws they
    wish--including laws against robbery, rape, and
    murder. Why would you want to make law-abiding
    citizens easier prey by taking away their guns?
    (See
    http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pag...s02004.html?999)


    10) We rarely see both sides of the gun debate issue
    on national television. Why is that? It has already
    been proven by the most in-depth scientific study on
    the subject of guns and crime that more guns in the
    hands of law-abiding citizens means less crime.

    11) The ACLU and most Americans think a door-to-door
    search for drugs is a gross violation of civil rights.
    Many gun banners would like to see door-to-door
    confiscation of guns. Are you willing to have Your
    Home searched for guns (or anything else) any time the
    government wishes to do so?

    12) Every year Americans citizens legally kill 3-5
    times as many criminals as are killed by all the law
    enforcement officials combined. Up to 2 1/2 million
    times a year, citizens use guns to legally thwart
    crime--usually when they are the intended victims. If
    citizens are disarmed, these intended victims will be
    defenseless against armed criminals. Are you saying
    that millions of Americans each year should have no
    right to stop criminals who are victimizing them?
    Would you prefer to give many more criminals the
    ability to succeed each year?

    13) Today, many men and women have reason to believe
    that the Federal government is intent on disarming the
    American people as a means to significantly greater
    control-- the way citizens in disarmed China, Germany,
    the Soviet Union and Cuba are controlled. If these
    people are right, does this concern you?

    14) There are 360-450 citizens in America for every
    law enforcement officer. (600,000/750,000 to
    270,000,000) Do you believe each law enforcement
    officer can protect 360-450 people from violent
    criminals?

    15) When they express anger, law-abiding gun owners
    are presented as "extremists" in today's media.
    American public servants surrounded by armed
    bodyguards and/or living in neighborhoods with private
    security are telling law-abiding citizens we cannot
    carry or even own (some cities/states) a gun--not even
    to protect ourselves and our families. Do you see the
    hypocrisy? Can you understand why tolerance pushed
    beyond a limit of fairness leads to justifiable anger?
    Can you understand why being told we cannot enjoy the
    same safety our leaders enjoy invokes outrage? Is a
    politician's life more important than your life? If
    so, why?

    16) Mainstream media, which uses the publicly-owned
    electromagnetic spectrum to broadcast, has clearly
    proven to be biased against guns; it is not presenting
    both sides of the issue. (See
    http://www.keepandbeararms.org/media_bias.htm) On the
    other hand, http://www.citizensofamerica.org has a
    media program that presents the pro-gun side of the
    story. If you believe in "equality" regarding public
    property, should COA be given free media time to
    present their case? And just why IS the media so
    biased in the first place? (And why might the
    government be anti-gun?)

    17) In many areas of the nation, a woman who is being
    stalked by her ex-husband must wait 10 days to
    purchase a gun--even if her life has been threatened.
    Why should law-abiding people in fear of their lives
    wait 10 days to get a gun when criminals have no
    waiting periods?

    18) Criminals often kill people who've already turned
    over their money and put up no resistance. If a woman
    does not resist and the criminal intends to rape her,
    she will be raped. Do you think the government has a
    right to require women to submit to rape? If so, why?

    19) Are we supposed to simply Submit when confronted
    with an armed rapist or murderer and leave our
    ourselves at their mercy? If so, why? Can you see how
    our society would revert to utter lawlessness if
    everyone agreed to simply submit to armed criminals?

    20) Many anti-gun people use child gun-related
    accidents and/or deaths as a reason for banning guns.
    Seeing that more children drown every year than are
    killed by guns, do you support banning swimming pools?


    21) Current federal law now limits the capacity of a
    gun's magazine to 10 rounds. Police often empty their
    guns without ever stopping a criminal. If you were out
    alone at a roadside rest area and were approached by 3
    hardened criminals with obvious intent to do you harm,
    would you want to be limited to only 10 rounds?

    22) Cars are commonly used to commit crimes. Far more
    people die in cars every year than by guns--and no
    Constitutional Amendment guarantees our rights to own
    cars. Because more people die every year in cars than
    by guns, do you support a ban on cars? There are also
    an alarming number of crimes committed under the
    influence of alcohol. Would you support a ban on
    alcohol considering it didn't work the last time they
    tried it?

    23) Mayors of several cities in America are suing gun
    manufacturers under the guise of recovering costs of
    gun-related injuries which took place in their cities.
    Because more people are hurt or killed in cars than by
    guns, do you support these mayors in suing car
    manufacturers?

    24) Numerous cities in America criminalize carrying
    guns for self-defense. These same cities make
    exceptions for people carrying money and jewels. Do
    you agree that money and jewels are more important to
    protect than people's lives?

    25) The National Guard is paid by the Federal
    government, occupies property leased to the Federal
    government, uses weapons owned by the Federal
    government, and punishes trespassers under Federal
    law. Do you truly believe the National Guard is a
    State agency?

    26) The National Guard is also what is commonly called
    the modern-day militia in anti-gun propaganda as a way
    of trying to deal with the Second Amendment. If the
    Constitution was referring to the National Guard with
    the term "militia," how can we account for the fact
    that the Second Amendment was ratified in 1787--while
    the National Guard was created by an act of Congress
    in 1903?

    27) The FBI and ATF (agencies of the Federal
    government) gunned down 81 innocent women and children
    and burned most of the evidence down to the ground in
    Waco and have withheld evidence which would (and still
    may) convict them of wrongdoing. They murdered Randy
    Weaver's wife. The police and other state agencies
    shot to death Donald Scott in a bogus drug raid in
    California. Why would you trust these government
    agencies with fully automatic weapons but not trust a
    law-abiding individual with a simple self-defense
    handgun?

    28) The law-abiding gun owners of today are presented
    as "gun nuts, extremists, militia fanatics, and
    killers" in the communications media. Is it possible
    they are depicted this way to sway public opinion
    toward disliking guns? If so, why would the media and
    the anti-gun politicians do that? How is this
    different from the way the news organs of Nazi
    Germany, China, the Soviet Union, Cambodia, and Cuba
    propagandized against the segments of their societies
    that opposed complete state control?

    29) Many documented statements by anti-gun groups
    claim that the Second Amendment refers to the power of
    the States to keep and bear arms. In other sections of
    the Constitution, we find the following: "the right of
    the PEOPLE to peaceably assemble," the "right of the
    PEOPLE to be secure in their homes," "enumeration here
    of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage
    others retained by the PEOPLE," and "the powers not
    delegated herein are reserved to the states
    respectively, and to the PEOPLE." Do you honestly
    believe "the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear
    arms" refers to the States but excludes Individuals?

    30) Handguns are the cheapest, lightest, most
    portable, easiest-to-use, and most effective means of
    self-defense. This is why they are used by police
    officers. Denying people the right to use this tool
    leaves them defenseless against criminals on the
    street. Why do you advocate that law-abiding people
    not be allowed to protect themselves with the best
    means of self-defense available?

    31) The Federal government and the United Nations (See
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesk...coming_yo.shtml)
    have been working in unison for years to
    systematically disarm American citizens. Is it even
    remotely possible that the government has something
    planned that so many Americans would be against that
    it is critical that they disarm us? If so, do you see
    that supporting their disarmament plans could be
    working against the American citizens committed to
    preserving freedom?

    I do appreciate your thoughts on these matters and
    look forward to your reply. I am committed to
    answering every question you send me by giving each
    one careful attention and a thorough, intelligent
    reply as soon as possible. If you pose a question I
    cannot intelligently address, I will seek out an
    answer until I can.

    Respectfully,

    Angel Shamaya
    Founder/Director
    http://www.KeepAndBearArms.com
     
  2. vettefan52

    vettefan52 Guest

    this is pretty worthless to anti gunners for one main reason:


    they will not listen to any rational argument, when you do make one they will retort with something stupid and absurd that has nothing to do with anything, then keep yapping on about nothing, and then finally get mad, call you an idiot republican and walk away.
     
  3. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    i need to email this to my mom, but she'd probably ignore it as "right wing propaganda"
     
  4. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    should i email it to her anyway?
     
  5. Aequitas

    Aequitas If it keeps on raining, levee's going to break.

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    Of course. One can only resist logic and reason for so long.
     
  6. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    :cool: sent
     
  7. Tdizzle

    Tdizzle New Member

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    Nice to see all that in one place. Usually when bombarded by anti gun hippies i have to go searching for decent sources.
     
  8. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    I'd send it to my mom, but I'm seeing her over the weekend, so I probably shouldn't yet :mamoru:
     
  9. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    send it 5 minutes before you leave, then turn your cell off for the drive home.


    being scared of what mom will say FTL
     
  10. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    more like send it when I get back to merced, amirite?
     
  11. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    no, more like send it now then debate with her all weekend
     
  12. idleprocess

    idleprocess Bring a dollar with you baby in the cold cold grou

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    You would be astounded at how long people cling to dogma no matter how much it might be utterly defeated by reason and facts...
     
  13. Slick26

    Slick26 Gun|Bike|Cigar|PS3|Beer |Whisky|Night Crew

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    Saved for later.
     
  14. Cannondale

    Cannondale OT Supporter

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    I know a few people that need to see this. I am lucky, almost everyone I know is pro-gun. Even most of my friend's sisters and parents are. It keeps me from getting into arguments that are a waste of time, that I will win anyway.
     
  15. zxghostrider

    zxghostrider Sometimes you gotta hop on two wheels

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    In your mind

    It's funny you say that. To this day, I still have not gotten one valid argument from any anti-gunner. I mention facts and points like the ones in the article, and they just shove it off.....it pisses me off at first, and then I relize how naive they are. People are scared of what they don't understand. They will claim that guns kill people...to which I reply, "Don't they also protect people."

    I've found that most people who don't like guns fall into one of two catagories (at least amongst people I've interacted with)
    1. People who cannot legally own a gun. If they are not allowed to own a gun legally for whatever reason, chances are they are jumping on the anti-gun wagon. "If I can't have one then no one else should have one" mind set.
    2. People who don't want you to have a gun b/c they think you are going to go nuts and kill someone, when the reality is they are just projecting their own feelings onto you. They think to themselves, "Well if I had a gun, and someone pissed me off, I might actually kill them. Well if that's the case with me, then it's the same for everyone."

    Anyway, that's just what I've noticed.
     
  16. skeletor25rs

    skeletor25rs Yetis & Deer

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    Wirelessly posted via wap.offtopic.com (SAMSUNG-SGH-I607/I607FG1 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; Smartphone; 320x240))

    I'm behind a car right now that has 3 PEACE stickers and one that says "Acutally, Guns Do Kill People."

    Should I run her into the ditch to prove the car argument?
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2007
  17. Cannondale

    Cannondale OT Supporter

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    I heard a guy I was acquainted with, but wasn't a friend or someone I knew really well say,"I would have fucking stabbed that guy if I had a knife, he would have deserved it too". I responded back ,"Don't you think you are overreacting, you just had a few ugly words with the guy, it isn't like he just physically attacked you". The guy responded back ,"Oh you're such a great example of keeping your cool, you own guns". The guy figured because I own guns, I am some homicidal lunatic with something to prove. Just the typical misconception/stupidity that we as a group are up against.
     
  18. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Yggdrasil's Forester.

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    Nah. Should have a Peace Through Superior Firepower on the back of yours, though so you can cut them off :o
     
  19. skeletor25rs

    skeletor25rs Yetis & Deer

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    Ordered $30 of stuff from there last night. :rofl:
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2007
  20. Aequitas

    Aequitas If it keeps on raining, levee's going to break.

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    You need a "Footprint of the American Chicken" bumper sticker. Can't find a sticker, but t-shirt for reference. http://www.lifelibertyetc.com/product.aspx?pid=38
     
  21. zxghostrider

    zxghostrider Sometimes you gotta hop on two wheels

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    Perfect exsample of people who fall in the second category. Not to sound like a therpist, but he was projecting his feelings of rage onto you. He admitted that if he had a knife that he would have stabbed that guy. So he assumes that if he has this rage to kill with a knife, that you must have rage to kill with a gun. The best thing you can do it be the bigger man and just relize that people who make agruments without knowledge of the subject, or facts, are just spewing out the biased crap that they here in the media.

    From my expierence BTW, most gun oweners I've interacted with have been some of the calmest and nicest people. I've met more assholes who don't own guns than ones who do.
     
  22. skeletor25rs

    skeletor25rs Yetis & Deer

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    look up
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2007
  23. Aequitas

    Aequitas If it keeps on raining, levee's going to break.

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    :o In my defense they're two different slogans.
     
  24. zxghostrider

    zxghostrider Sometimes you gotta hop on two wheels

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    Throw a bar of soap at the car, and tell them poor hygiene kills people too.......dirty fucking hippies.
     
  25. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Yggdrasil's Forester.

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    Response, "That's right motherfucker, so toe the line around me."

    Then never speak to his retarded ass again.
     

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