This weekend v. lover hooked up

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by JohnJohnJohnson, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Edit: Hooked up, meaning made out with / felt.

    Sorry for my New Yorkese. I should have clarified.

    =========

    This weekend was interesting. On Friday my lover hooked up with someone. And things are goood. I'm very impressed with myself.

    Basically I wanted to know that she could still self-actualize and claim social power and grow as a person - while being in love with me. She definitely can. She went out, dressed to the nines. To give you some context, she is very beautiful, she has a strong personality (laughs a lot, likes people, self-deprecates in order to be "down to earth"), and she moves sexily.

    Some guy told her he had been too scared to talk to her for four years because she "emanated confidence" and beauty... her breasts have grown too, because of B.C., so that was also good Friday night.

    This is a complete 180 for me, when in my last LTR, when I had a "girlfriend" and so on, I would get little poisonous feelings if a guy even talked to her.

    IMO, jealousy comes from fear of loss - for me, at least - so, if I KNOW that she loves me, the jealousy goes away. From the other direction: I care about her and want her to be healthy.

    It's very difficult for me to explain to you how all of this makes sense because, incredibly, I don't know the words in this language in order to do so.

    The thing that I'm trying to express is so outside of mainstream "knowledge," as I've encountered, that it doesn't lend itself easily to explanation.

    For example: I would say that Emily was "reasserting her independence," on Friday, except that, that is not what Friday was about. Friday was about self-actualizing and reasserting societal power. The connotations of "asserting independence" are good... the meaning is inaccurate.

    Alternately: I would say that Emily was "getting validation" last night - except that the connotations of validation imply something WEAK, and this is something that strengthens. The meaning of validation is good... the connotations are inaccurate.

    On the down side, this turn of events has brought to my attention the unfortunate reality that although I don't particularly want to, I SHOULD be going out and sarging. Just as .... glamazonning... is important and healthy for Emily, sarging is very good for me. It's what causes growth. ("Sarging" = practicing game, doing pick-up.) I've basically been avoiding it because, like I said, we find it really really nice just lying in bed together eating good food, so it's easy to do that instead of taking the energy to get up and go to a party and (in my case) face social anxiety.

    I'm a little insecure of sarging in front of Emily because... well... crashing and burning is bound to happen, and I'm not sure how I'd feel with this woman I love being in the audience at the time. It feels unpleasant enough as it is. So, I may not do it with her around.

    Emily and I talked about this and she suggested it might reduce the discomfort for me if I go sarging with the goal in mind of bringing someone back home for both of us to play with (i.e. a threesome). I have a good track record here of accomplishing social goals, so hopefully I can get this done... and will update you if/when I do.

    This is the second time I've had to actually put my money where my mouth is in terms of my personal ideology about people.

    I still hold that if she finds someone who makes her happier than I do, that she should go for him or her. (Of course, I hope I make her happier than some other person, because she makes me very happy. Frankly I think I probably am the person who makes her happiest. That may be arrogant, but we do have a lot of compatibility.)

    Emily pointed out that if outside contact was jeapordizing what she has with me she wouldn't want to but she would sacrifice it. However, to be honest, I think the lack of unnatural constraints is what makes this so incredible to begin with. Plus... if we can pull this off... :noes: That just makes us awesome.

    An interesting aside, completely unrelated to this, but I wanted to get off my chest: I threw up at a naked party last night. It's the first time I've chucked from social drinking. :madfawk: I just can't fucking believe it. I had a perfect track record all through college. I've thrown up once before, but it was with my family, when I was very naive about liquor. It was a matter of personal pride for me. In between pukes, I was saying "I cant fuggng blv it. Cnt fggng blv it."
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2007
  2. tubachris85x

    tubachris85x New Member

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    so she technically cheated on you
     
  3. lauren

    lauren Active Member

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    :ugh:
     
  4. radfad88

    radfad88 The Batman-O-Lantern

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    this whole situation is weird to me.
    :io:
     
  5. Doc Love

    Doc Love Guest

    I am impressed by your complete lack of response to what happened. You have grown as a person and your relationship will flourish because of this. Congratulations.
     
  6. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    ok, cool
     
  7. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    JJJ, you are an anomaly :bigthumb:
     
  8. fray

    fray New Member

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    The naked party part made me laugh, because I've only had to puke naked once, but it was not something I'd love to repeat.

    Just to show solidarity here, I puked on Halloween... into a small pumpkin bucket which it turns out had a hole in the bottom covered only by a price sticker. ...but I'm a bit of a vomiter.
     
  9. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    I am not an anomaly. My position in life may be anomalous.
     
  10. fray

    fray New Member

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    I don't think you're an anomaly. I think it's great that you've found something that works for you and someone who is game for it as well.
     
  11. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    :hug:

    It's just that usually for some reason I get a certain feeling and then I stop drinking - I didn't get that feeling this time, but apparently I should have. Argh.
     
  12. Buttons

    Buttons OT Supporter

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    No, his "friend with benefits" hooked up with someone else.
     
  13. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    That's the spirit.

    Sure, "friend" strictly implies someone you're not mutually in love with, so it doesn't work (technically). But it's very, very important - crucial- that we find SOME mainstream label to apply.
     
  14. tubachris85x

    tubachris85x New Member

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    Well he said "lover," I automatically assumed it was his SO
     
  15. demosnat

    demosnat New Member

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    Hes an average looking guy, cute/attractive, but nothing out of the ordinary. Nondescript I suppose.
    I know you won't take offense JJJ, you've said so yourself.
     
  16. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    that's right
     
  17. ballerman230

    ballerman230 just a pale blue dot

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    I think it would be immensely helpful if you explained to readers of the Vag if you explained what this social project you have going is, and what ideology is behind it. Your stories are very hard to understand otherwise. Sorry if you've already done this.
     
  18. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Hmmmm... Yeah. Sorry.

    I'm not doing a social project or anything like that. The ideology I was referring to was just the overall summary of the points of view I've expressed here over the months and years about love and relationships and sex and interactions. You can read my vag. interview to see some of that, and also the thread http://forums.offtopic.com/showthread.php?t=3339195.

    I think I deleted it out of concern for my anonymity, but my thread "why it's good to manipulate women" was just a long defense of the concept of pick-up and a defense of using analytical tactics to improve your interactions with people.
     
  19. huntz0r

    huntz0r New Member

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    JJJ, I truly and completely do not get this part of your outlook on relationships.

    But good on you for progressing in the direction you want to go.
     
  20. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    i find it amazing how difficult most people find it to grasp the fairly simple nature of your nonstandard relationship
     
  21. Shadoxity

    Shadoxity New Member

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    dude you are insane! i luv it :)

    This is such an awesome thing you are doing, from the posts i have caught it seems to be very interesting and u are getting a whole lot of great development out of it.

    Care to explain in short detail what it is you are actually doing though?

    What im gathering its sorta a cross between friends with benefits and an open relationship with love being involved :)
     
  22. Doc Love

    Doc Love Guest

    Let's not label that, but that's the gist of it. JJJ, it's all your fault. Gotta try new things in life.
     
  23. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Yeah I guess. I haven't tried to come up with a good mix & match of currently existing labels myself. It has elements of all of those. I just stick with the uncomplicated, "lover."

    I don't mean to make this sound complicated. My approach is very simple:

    The situation is that I'm in love with her and she's in love with me, and the question is, "How do we deal with that?", and the answer is: going with the flow, and making a mess. That's it.

    (Actually, with this much passion in the pot, we've had to modify "making a mess" to "making a glorious mess." That's for all you technical people.)

    The only reason it's hard to describe with one (or two, or three) of the currently existing mainstream labels, the only reason it takes me many paragraphs to explain something simple, is because I'm basically trying to describe a LACK OF something in a language that only offers terms where that something is present. A lack of something: there are no implicit agreements and no expectations between Emily and me.

    "Friend with benefits" implies non-romantic expectations. "Open relationship" implies "boyfriend-girlfriend," which in turn implies a HOST of subtle agreements and expectations. The complication comes from outside, not from inside. Like I said, inside, it's very simple (in "short detail" once more): we're in love with each other, and we have chosen not to make any implicit agreements or expectations based on this situation.

    It's only when trying to explain this to people who are used to seeing agreement- and expectation-based relationships all their lives that it becomes "difficult to grasp," as antihero put it.
     
  24. Omerta6

    Omerta6 New Member

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    When I try to apply my own ideals of love I am very confused with how you guys do this and still believe that she 'loves you' and likewise.

    If you guys are satisfied and love eachother. Why/what do you seek out others? I do not understand this.

    How does it feel diving in after knowing another man has hooked-up with the girl you love so that you can let her 'grow'? What safe-sex practises do you guys employ?

    Does she not feel as awkward being picked up as you do sarging around her?

    So are you guys just mutually there for eachother with companionship and sex?



    Power to you for attempting this and I hope it works out for both of you..
     
  25. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    I don't know. Thus far it's just been making out. I should have clarified that. "Hooking up" where I'm from can mean anywhere from kissing to sex. If/when we get to full sexual intercourse, we will be using condoms and tests. This small experience has given me a lot of confidence, however.

    Whatever we share with the other people does not change what we have with each other, or at most, strengthens what we have with each other.

    Tentatively, I do not believe love is a limited resource (although time and energy are obviously limited resources).

    I believe she loves me much more than either of my ex-girlfriends, who were both (technically) faithful to me.

    I don't feel awkward sarging, I feel shy. There's less to be shy about when someone is sarging you.

    We are not "there for each other" in the sense of agreeing to support each other through companionship and sex. However, she tends to support me because she cares about my well being (because she loves me), and vice versa, and we make love, for the same reasons, and we enjoy each other's company, often to the point of ecstasy.
     

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