A&P Thinking of getting an XTi or a D80...

Discussion in 'Lifestyle' started by TtamNedlog, May 1, 2007.

  1. TtamNedlog

    TtamNedlog OT Supporter

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    but the choice is hard, and lenses have me confused. :wtc:

    My first and current camera is a Canon Powershot A620, and I've taken thousands of pics with it and have come to feel slightly restricted. I mean it is technically just a point and shooter after all. It taught me a lot of photography basics though, and I thought I knew all I'd need to know to decide between a D80 and an XTi.... but...

    Reading the reviews over at dpreview basically says that they are both great choices, with XTis producing slightly sharper pics, but D80s having a better UI and performance. Where I'm confused is how lenses effect this. Is it not possible that a better lens would make the XTi superior, or vice versa? And how much of what a camera does, is determined by the lens?

    I.E. on my Powershot I can take landscapes, telephoto, macro, portraits, etc. Being a jack of all trades, I guess it doesn't excel at any of them... but will I need certain lenses for these things on a DSLR? Can I not take a macro pic and a landscape with the same lens?

    Dpreview said the aperture settings vary on the D80 depending on the lens used. Fstops of 2.2-8.0 (I think that's what they were, can't recall) on the Powershot were one of the particular areas I felt restricted by. To get a wider range, would I need more than one lens?

    Any lens recommendations for the XTi or the D80? Dpreview said the kit lens for the XTi is crap.

    Last but not least, they made a big to-do about the dust cleaning features of the XTi. Nothing is said about the D80 in this department. How does it fare with dust?

    Sorry for tha long post, any help is appreciated.




    cliffs: lenses, confusion, uh, please read ;)
     
  2. 1200mk

    1200mk Still same OG

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    you are buying a system not just a camera body.

    Either canon or nikon.

    It really depends on how much you want to spend and what type of photography you are really into.

    But if you wanted a do-it-all lens I would get the d80 w/ a 18-200mm vr.
     
  3. TtamNedlog

    TtamNedlog OT Supporter

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    What's "vr?" A brand?

    As for the type of photography I'm into, mostly anything other than portraits.
     
  4. dooks88

    dooks88 need some bat wings

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    I agree with the D80 and 18-200 VR. I have the D80 and am looking forward to getting the 18-200 VR. Canon and Nikon are both great cameras, you really cant go wrong. I had this same delima a few months back and it stressed me out like crazy. I finally chose the D80 and have been very happy.

    What ever brand you choose, just pick it. Don't look back, don't worry about the "what ifs" about the other brand. Just pick one and run with it.
     
  5. dooks88

    dooks88 need some bat wings

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    "VR" stands for "vibration reduction." It is a feature in higher-end Nikon lenses. It is expensive, but worth the $.

    the 18-200 will be great in most situations. it is a good all around lens.
     
  6. TtamNedlog

    TtamNedlog OT Supporter

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    "Nikon 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens"


    This the lens you're talkin about? Youch that's expensive. :noes:


    And "f/3.5-5.6", does that mean that's the aperture range on that lens? That's less than the Powershot. What if I want some crazy DoF? :noes:
     
  7. jared_IRL

    jared_IRL OT Supporter

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    VR means vibration reduction.

    Quick bit of info regarding SLR's:

    The camera is responsible for the iso settings, shutter speeds, burst speeds, data capture and data storage.

    The lenses are responsible for aperture ranges, sharpness, and focal lengths.

    Your lens will determine your ability to shoot landscapes, macro, etc. Your camera body will dictate the quality of the data captured.

    your typical consumer grade lens goes from f4.0/5.6 to f22. Better lenses offer fixed f stops of 2.8 or so, and other lenses offer f stops as low as 1.2 (although 1.8 is much more common).

    A typical kit lens goes from ~18 to ~55mm. Some better kit lenses go to 70mm or 135mm. None of these will do really good macro.

    Typically, macro options are dedicted to zoom lenses or fixed focal length lenses. Nikon makes a great 60mm 2.8 lens that offers an outstanding macro lens. There's a sigma 70-300mm lens thats popular here that also offers a macro setting.

    You can also get wider lenses that go from ~10mm and up.

    Typically, the best train of thought goes like this:

    The lens is more important than the body. Good glass can make or break a picture, but a good body will just record a lot of shitty data if the lens is crap.

    So my advice is this:

    Go to the camera store. Hold both the d80 and xti. Buy whichever feels better in your hand.

    But do NOT buy the 18-55mm kit lens. They are terrible. The one for the Nikon is a joke, and i've heard xti users say the same about the canon one.

    Then buy the lens or lenses that suit your style of photography.

    I bought the Nikon D80, and got the 18-70mm nikon lens. I also just recently bought a 70-210 nikon zoom lens that has macro. Now I have the full focal lengths from 18-210, and all of my glass is perfect for my needs.

    Here are two examples of what I was able to capture with my d80 and the one lens: (just keep in mind that I would have been perfectly able to capture the same shots with the xti if I had a similar lens...)

    (goofy flower sort of macro, since you are interested in that:)
    [​IMG]

    and a landscape that I love:
    [​IMG]
     
  8. jared_IRL

    jared_IRL OT Supporter

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    Yeah, it is expensive, but it's a phenomenal piece of glass, and it covers the entire focal range without sacrificing quality. You'd spend almost double that buying seperate lenses to cover that same focal range with the same quality.

    Which is why it's always out of stock. They can't make it fast enough.

    Yes, that is the aperture range on the lens. DOF is created just as effectively using the focal length as it is with the aperture. And in all fairness, in terms of DOF, 2.2 and 3.5 aren't that far off. The main difference between those apertures is low light performance.
     
  9. TtamNedlog

    TtamNedlog OT Supporter

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    Is this like, the One Ring? *snicker*

    So basically if it all comes down to the lens (mostly), I'd be paying $1-200 more for a D80 for UI, performance, and comfort (if I find it to be more comfy in-hand)?

    Hmm... I might could put that $200 towards a better lens if I got an XTi....



    And check your PMs, dooks, if you haven't already. =)
     
  10. jared_IRL

    jared_IRL OT Supporter

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    Yup. Now you got it.

    I bought the d80 because it felt better in my hand, taking NOTHING else into consideration.

    I figured if I was going to be holding it for hours at a time, the UI better damn well be perfect.

    I have not been disappointed with my choice.
     
  11. 1200mk

    1200mk Still same OG

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    not really...

    it's an all-in-one not an all-in-wonder.
     
  12. jared_IRL

    jared_IRL OT Supporter

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    considering it is a consumer grade lens, it's pretty damn close.

    I mean if you are looking at 200mm 2.8's, then this lens isn't going to interest you to begin with.

    But if you're a consumer looking for one piece of glass that will take super sharp, distortion free images from 18 to 200mm, this is the lens.
     
  13. Redliner7

    Redliner7 New Member

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    I picked Nikon for it's comfortable grip, and awesome UI. Pictures from both Canon & Nikon should both look fantastic, as long as the user is up to par.

    Some reasons to go with Canon would be if you were a professional, and wanted a better lineup of professional lenses, compared to Nikon. For example, they have the 50mm F1.2 (I think). Something Nikon does not have.

    Currently, Nikon tends to the consumers a little more in their lens lineup, while Canon has a better grip on professional lenses. That, to me, is the biggest thing that seperates the 2 companies.
     
  14. TtamNedlog

    TtamNedlog OT Supporter

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    Thanks for the help and suggestions. I'll go by a local camera shop or two tomorrow and take a look at things and see how things feel.

    I'm leaning towards the Nikon, pending how it feels in my hands, but this may just be because it's the camera/lenses I've read the most about. What would be the Canon lens equivalent to the 18-200 VR? So I can know what to look into on the Canon side.
     
  15. Redliner7

    Redliner7 New Member

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    Canon doesn't have an equal for that Nikon lens.
     
  16. tenplanescrashing

    tenplanescrashing Active Member

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    no, that isn't the aperture range. the left number is the max aperture at the widest zoom and the right number is the max aperture at the longest zoom (max is 3.5 @ 18mm and max is 5.6 @ 200mm with varying apertures in between as you zoon). Most lenses go up to f/22 or f/32
     
  17. AMGSiR

    AMGSiR New Member

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    I just talked my friend into Canon (30d) purely based on the ability of Canon's used lens market.

    But it all depends on what you like. If a D80 feels right in your hands, then get a D80
     
  18. tenplanescrashing

    tenplanescrashing Active Member

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    that was going to be my other point...hold and shoot with both cameras. I feel the XT and XTi are too small for my hands.
     
  19. Jhegro

    Jhegro wtf is a jhegro?

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    im no camera snob, but it seems that you dont grasp some of the basics of cameras. focal length, aperture, etc.you should go to library or bookstore and get some books on the basics. that or just go to photo.net and look at the tutorials. from there you can start reading up on what you want specifically on cameras. i dont mean to sound overly critical but i have a few friends that went out and bought XTi's D70's D80's 20d's etc and ended up finding them a hassle to take pics with and just ended up selling them for a loss.
     
  20. jared_IRL

    jared_IRL OT Supporter

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    Yeah, thats what I meant. I explained aperture range a few paragraphs up:

    I meant 'starting' aperture range...

    thanks for correcting that. Dunno how I missed it.
     
  21. TtamNedlog

    TtamNedlog OT Supporter

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    Some things I've read suggest that many zoom lenses are too slow, having apertures that aren't wide enough. How will the 18-200 vr perform in poor lighting, and will I be able to blur backgrounds if I need to take some portraits?
     
  22. jared_IRL

    jared_IRL OT Supporter

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    again: depth of field is determined just as much by focal length as it is by aperture. You are worrying about a problem that doesn't exist.

    As far as poor lighting, you have a few choices:

    tripod, higher iso or flash.

    It is true that a f4.0 is slower than an f1.8. Is it the end of the world? No.

    give me 5 minutes, i'll throw up some example shots of the depth of field.
     
  23. jared_IRL

    jared_IRL OT Supporter

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    these were all take an 70mm.

    you'll have to excuse my messy ass desk.

    F4.5:

    [​IMG]

    f8:

    [​IMG]

    f29:

    [​IMG]

    There ya go. depth of field ranges created within the f4.5 - 29.
     
  24. ohknaks

    ohknaks New Member

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    They're both great cameras. Learn a bit more about what you want to do with them before you decide on a brand. Then look at the lenses available and see which system fits your usage better. If they're both close, go to a store and handle the cameras. Which ever one you can use easier, buy. Personally I can't stand the Nikon interface and I like Canon glass, so I bought Canon. You may be the opposite.
     
  25. NJGuy

    NJGuy "Fuckmefuckmefuckmefuckmef uckmefuckmefuckmefuckm OT Supporter

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    Go canon.

    You are learning photog on a620. You will be very familiar with the XTI. Plus IMO the canon has a better lens select.
     

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