GUN Things my CCW instructor said... confirm/deny them...

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Bigsnake, Mar 27, 2006.

  1. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    34,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    Some things he said in the class... tell me what you think... I think most of them sound logical to me. And also add any other advice about ccw you can think of.

    1. Wasn't sure of this... he said in Canada civilians don't have any rights to self-defense. This true?

    2. When you shoot through your cars glass you want the muzzle of the gun against the glass to prevent as much glass from coming back at you as possible (sounds reasonable to me. I've never read anything about shooting through auto glass though.)

    3. When you call 911 and if the operator asks you, "How long ago did this happen" say, "It just happened" so in court they can't say you waited to call 911, as in don't say, "5 minutes ago". (sounds reasonable to me)

    4. If you're on the phone with 911 and suddenly need two hands, then just put the phone down and don't hang up so it continues to record what's going on so it can be played back in court. (sounds reasonable to me)

    5. When the police show up at the scene tell them, "He attacked me (show them the guy), there is his weapon (point to weapon), those people witnessed it, and because of the seriousness of this event I don't want to say anything else until I get my lawyer here." (Question here is what can and can't you tell the police and is this a reasonable way to handle the situation?)

    6. He said revolvers are easier to defend in court than a semi-auto pistol, especially something single-action like a 1911 because the prosecutor could bring up that you "accidentally shot the guy because the trigger has such a light pull"

    7. He said don't come to anyones aid because assumptions will land you in prison. His example was, "I came around the corner and there are three guy's wrestling with a woman. My first thought is they're trying to rape her and I shoot one of them and kill them. Then it turns out they're three undercover narcotics agents making an arrest and I'm in jail because of my assumption" (sounds reasonable to me)

    8. You can't shoot to protect property. If you're in your house and a guy breaks in the front door, then you can shoot them. As soon as he grabs your stereo and tries to run out the door, then you can't shoot him.
     
  2. Accord

    Accord New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    10,869
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    #3 is a good tip, i'll remember that :cool:.

    #8 totally depends on the state you're in.

    And #7, i'd assume if you were using a DAO semi-auto gun like a Sig DAK, HK LEM, or even a safe-action Glock, it would be treated basically the same as a revolver assuming you don't have a trigger job or some shit.
     
  3. Candy B's

    Candy B's New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,187
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    yeah, 8 is different everywhere
     
  4. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    34,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    What state would allow you to shoot someone stealing property?

    Texas has some laws but it has to be at night... and you also have to be believe it's the only way to recover the property.
     
  5. Wizard of Poz

    Wizard of Poz New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Messages:
    29,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    climbin thru yo windoz
    These 'tips' are retarded.
     
  6. KIDRR

    KIDRR Duck dog>* OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    49,621
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    Location:
    North Mexico
    I think those are pretty good tips
     
  7. Candy B's

    Candy B's New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11,187
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Texas probably
     
  8. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    34,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    thanks for sharing your awesome insight... :ugh:
     
  9. 2L Bunny

    2L Bunny "It's only a Rabbit"

    Joined:
    May 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    OR
    I definetly agree with the phone comment, call recorders are your friend. As to revolvers being easier to defend? I call BS. There's all kind of talk about this, but I haven't seen any cases of it becoming a problem. Same with handloads, not that I use 'em, but still.
     
  10. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    34,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    I can see the handload stuff. Even Mas Ayoob recommends against them.

    I think there are good enough self-defense loads on the market. Just use them and why risk it?
     
  11. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    9,041
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Illinois
    Saying "even mas ayoob" doesn't hold alot of water for everyone. I think he's idolized and taken as the gospel far too much, and the "if I follow this method and this method only then i can be sheltered from the lawyers that will otherwise own me and rape my dog" he winds up encouraging is quite annoying.

    I wouldn't worry about what type of gun you use, was the shooting justified or not is the question. I would say nothing other than offer my drivers license and carry permit until you have an attorney present. Not even he attacked me because you'll start adding details without realizing it. Check your state laws about shooting someone for kicking in your door. Some states say you have a duty to retreat if you can. I also think not rendering aid is paranoid and sickening. If you can tell what is going on, save a life before you worry about court. A couple weeks ago a person carrying concealed saved a cops life. If you see a pregnant woman being beaten, don't just pretend like you never saw it.
     
  12. Accord

    Accord New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    10,869
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    According to Mas Ayoob, as long as you're using a DAO or DA/SA gun with it's trigger in it's factory configuration you have nothing to worry about. He has cited numerous cases over on GlockTalk where people who put the 3.5lb mod into their Glock's and other's who had hair triggers or race trigger used against them in court.

    Mas Ayoob is an expert and didn't just get his reputation overnight. He has been in the court room of literally thousands of shootings and knows his shit. If you can do something within reason which will lessen your chances of being crucified in court, why wouldn't you do it?
     
  13. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    34,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    We don't have a duty to retreat here

    I think his point was don't make assumptions... make sure you know who the bad guy is before shooting. There was a list of examples of this I read somewhere... things you could see but not get the entire story like coming around a corner and seeing two people wrestling a guy. You think the guy on the ground is in trouble but what really happened is one guy was getting robbed and someone already came to his aid and the guy on the ground is the robber. Plus you hear stuff about plain clothes cops getting shot by uniformed police officers because they don't recognizes them when they show up on a scene.

    And the story to coming to the cops aid I know since it happened in my area and the guy who did the shooting my instructor for this class knows personally... and one of the students in the class knew the guy who was shot and killed. There were no assumptions made to do the shooting.

    And I'd trust Mas Ayoob's recommendations and any other police officers/firearms instructor/lawyer who has worked with shooting cases and in the courts.
     
  14. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    34,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    That's another thing the guy told us is do not modifiy your self-defense gun at all. He said you can change sights, add a laser, or add a light if you wish but don't disable a factory saftey (like pinning the grip safety on a XD or 1911) and doing anytype of trigger jobs to lighten the pull as it can come back to you in court.

    And I got to hear about the recent murder trial in Jefferson Parish. I know someone who was on the Jury who told me some stuff after the case was over and done with. She said they made a big deal about how he used a revolver with a heavy pull on it so it was no accident he shot the people. He had to have done it deliberately.
     
  15. Platinum_Thunder

    Platinum_Thunder Reliability for life and liberty

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Messages:
    108,857
    Likes Received:
    196
    CCW instructors are full of shit.
     
  16. Platinum_Thunder

    Platinum_Thunder Reliability for life and liberty

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Messages:
    108,857
    Likes Received:
    196
    If the shooting is justified, all that other shit doesn't matter.
     
  17. krott5333

    krott5333 Guest

    I'm going to start carrying an STI with a 1.5# trigger and a cmore.
     
  18. PUREVIL

    PUREVIL More Money Than Brains Croo

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2001
    Messages:
    22,622
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Minot ND / Las Vegas NV
    I heard #1 is true recently. But I think in a life or death situation your allowed to defend yourself from personal harm. But not protect your material possessions. Plus I was told by a cop (NO JOKE) to make sure the guy is dead for 2 reasons. 1 he cant talk and tell his side of the story. So if he has a weapon and threatens you, dont shoot to injure shoot to kill. 2 if you dont kill him he will be part of the rest of your life. Lawsuits etc etc. I see where hes coming from there but if you kill him couldnt his/her family be a pain as well? I dunno.
     
  19. Y2kAccord

    Y2kAccord Everything happens for reasons I just dont know

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2000
    Messages:
    56,089
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Texas Bound!
    #5 My friend who is a CHL in TX was told not to tell the Police anything and ask for your lawyer. I guess because in TX if they are in your house it doesnt matter if they are armed or not and I keeps you from saying anything stupid.

    #8 is False in TX
     
  20. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Covington, GA
    I heard that the Easter Bunny and the Trix Rabbit are gay lovers, and they're going to have Peter Cottontail be their maid of honor.

    That instructor gave you about as much factual information as the sentence above.
     
  21. jimmybuffett

    jimmybuffett New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Messages:
    16,236
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Arkansas
    than why dont you enlighten us with something factual about what we are talking about
     
  22. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,925
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    MINDSET
    1. Who cares? I'm not happy with Canada right now.

    2. Bullshit. That guy probably hasn't shot through a lot of car glass. Reading about it is not like doing it. You are going to get sprayed with glass and fine glass dust no matter what you do. Concentrate on getting your hits. Remember that the reason you are shooting through the glass to begin with is because you are killing someone who is trying to kill you. Glass dust in your lungs is bad but not as bad as being dead. Plus I don't think putting the muzzle against the glass will reduce the blowback of glass anyway. Some people advocate shooting a hole in the windshield glass and then sticking the muzzle through the hole. With a rifle that may be an option but with a semi auto pistol it's a pretty good way to insure your gun malfunctions.

    3. Reasonable but you should avoid giving details to 911. Tell them there has been a shooting and you need the police and an ambulance. They will ask more questions but you shouldn't answer them. The effects of stress and adrenalin, dopamine and norepinephrine are well known. There's the Tachy Psyche effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachy_Psyche) and other well known psychological and physiological disruptions that are VERY common after high stress events. Avoid making statements of fact to ANYONE before you've calmed down (usually 24 hours) and spoken with your lawyer.

    4. Maybe. Every situation is different.

    5. Reasonable but I advocate not saying ANYTHING besides your name and that you wish to speak to your attorney. We have seen people who have trained at other schools and have their "preplanned statement" absolutely fall apart after a Force on Force shooting police interview. They can't keep it together after the moderate stress from an artificial shooting and yet they expect to be able to not gush all kinds of shit when they shoot someone for real. The best plan is to just keep your mouth shut until after the physiological effects of the shooting have subsided and you have spoken to your attorney. “My name is xxx and I need to speak with my attorney before making any statements.” Nothing more.

    6. Bullshit.

    7. I agree that you have to be very careful about injecting yourself into an unknown situation. Being a good witness is always an option.

    8. As others have said it really depends on the state.
     
  23. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    34,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    Thanks for the contribution to this thread
     
  24. Bigsnake

    Bigsnake OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    34,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Baton Rouge

    Thanks for the info...

    so basically if you shoot someone, STFU when the police arrive and ask for a lawyer....
     
  25. RonJeremey

    RonJeremey OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    Messages:
    31,797
    Likes Received:
    61
    Location:
    Pearland, Texas
    Depends what state your in. In Texas, I'd probly say a few things to the arriving officer, and then say something like "I'm really shaken up right now and I can't think clearly... I need a little time" because you REALLY want that guy on your side... The way that the arriving officer records the event may very well decide whether it was a good shoot (in the law's eyes) or not.

    Also, as to the revolver versus semi-auto thing, in Texas, that's completely irrelvant. They don't care if you're carrying a Jframe or a race gun...

    Also, as to the AutoGlass: Bull shit, I've shot through car windows. 4Ft/1Ft/Muzzle on glass, I got sprayed more with the muzzle on the glass than anywhere else.

    As for coming to someone's aid... every situation is different... If you can upon something like that, you might want to wait a few minutes and take in the whole situation, at which point you may decide to be a witness, or the savior if it's warranted... every situatiuon is different, and dynamic. NEVER FORGET THAT.

    Also, #8 is bullshit in Texas, you CAN shoot to protect property. Daylight or Darkness. SHOULD YOU is another question you'll have to decide when that time comes... (Is your 200$ stereo worth shooting someone, the paperwork, the clean up, etc. etc. etc.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2006

Share This Page