There is no such thing as overtraining.

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by bigdamray, Jun 12, 2007.

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  1. bigdamray

    bigdamray New Member

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    I hate to break it to you, but there is no such thing as overtraining, there is only under-recovering.

    I dont think people appreciate the workload that the human body is capable of adapting to. To think that a person would stop at three sets of ten out of fear of overtraining is ridiculous and is probably a symptom of too much time spent reading muscle magazines and their stupid monthly work out suggestions and bad-advice columns.

    The only fear a person should have is the fear of under recovering, because THAT is the true culprit in lack of muscle gains, lack of strength gains and overall poor performance. If your calories are high enough to suit your training volume, and if you are getting enough rest, you can push your body farther than you probably could even imagine! I doubt that most people train their body anywhere even near their limit, mostly due to the fact that they dont have a good idea of what their nutritional needs REALLY are. So they are constantly half-assing training and half-assing recovery, and then posting threads lamenting their lack of progress.

    Lets look at me. Yes, I am on HRT, but my testosterone level is dead center normal. That means I have the testosterone level of a person who is NOT using AAS, but is in their mid twenties. So I am not receiving any hormonal boost in my training or recovery, i.e. I am basically training natural (which is to say that I, at 35, am hormanally the same as a natural guy 20-some years old...).

    I train monday, wednesday and friday, with back monday, chest/delts wednesday, and legs friday. All of those days I either lift really heavy (1, 3 or maybe 5 reps)for 4 or 5 sets of 3 to 5 exercises then auxilliary work, or I lift lighter (10-12 reps) for as many sets as I feel like, and then do heavy auxilliary work. On tuesdays and thursdays I usually drag a 150lb sled for an hour, and then do 100lb plate carries for a few sets of 20 yards (in 70 - 80 degree heat). There have been variations over the years, but it has always been a tremendous workload (i.e. training 6 days a week for 2 hour plus sessions).

    Do I overtrain?

    No.

    Why?

    I take in somewhere between 5000 and 8000 calories a day, try to get a gallon of water per day minimum and get a good nights rest. If I find a chance to take a nap during the day, I do so. I know my body well enough to listen to it when it tells me not to do another set, or to do a different movement because my rotator cuff or something is sore.

    I know what my body can take and I know how to recover.


    The fact of it is this:

    If you are taking in calories equal to or exceeding your work level and getting appropriate rest, you will recover.
    If you are taking in calories exceeding your work level and getting rest, you will grow.
    If you are taking in calories exceeding your work level and getting rest, you will get stronger.

    So ask yourself, are you under-recovering?

    If your recovery is fine and you dont feel overtrained, ask yourself this:

    Are you undertraining?

    If you have spent your life doing preprogrammed routines of 3 sets of 10, and whatever else the magazines try to sell you, consider that lack of progress may be due to the fact that you are not pushing your body hard enough to elicit a response. Improvement only occurs when you present your body with a greater set of challenges than it is accustomed to facing, and if youve been using the same handful of training schemes your entire training-life, you haven't been giving your body anything but the same old stimuli it is used to getting.
    If there is no new stimuli, there is nothing new to adapt to, so there is no reason for the body to change (i.e. get stronger, add more muscle, improve performance).

    So do yourself a favor, and stop searching the boards and magazines for new routines of sets and reps and magical new exercises. Get out there and do the basics and do them hard until you cant take any more. Then eat, drink and rest and let nature do the rest.

    People were growing muscle and getting strong WAY BEFORE fancy supplements, monthly magazine and internet forums were around, so spend less time looking and more time doing.

    I would say more, but Im off to get something to eat... [​IMG]

    This was written by my friend Monster from the AFboard.
     
  2. igo4bmx

    igo4bmx WHAT WHAT WHAT THE FU OT Supporter

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    i agree with this completely.

    I used to be one of those guys who counted reps and sets and exercises and said "omg i just did 4 exercises now- i should go home"
    now i base it on how i feel, like if i feel like giving up or not and how exhaust i get (or hungry). it has really helped me grow and get stronger by NOT limiting the number of things i do during a session
     
  3. PurEvl

    PurEvl going out gassed and not half assed...

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    naturals can overtrain no matter what...

    also the cns will get depressed no matter what...sorry dont agree with this at all. Sure you can prolong it but everyones gonna burn out or get hurt eventually and need a break. EVERYONE.

    Plus hes on hrt...you cant compare that to natural test levels what so ever. ITs synthetic at best. Hes producing test, dont care what he says.

    A break is always beneficial to refresh the joints, the ligaments and the nervous system as well. Also its wise to break from your diet as well to help with digestion and clean out.

    He contradicts himself also, if your sore somewhere, do something else or dont do another set...umm ok thats taking a break in the first place and signs of training wrong.

    From a gains standpoint, i agree with him, to get big, you have to have some pain and some misery. But overtraining exists. I have done it to myself first hand. If your on 1000mgs and not growing but eating right and training right and still not getting it, somethings up. A break always gets me through it. As for a natural, well if im getting burnt here an there...wtf do you think will happen for them

    But i do agree with his example, but to say overtraining doesnt exist is foolish.
     
  4. PurEvl

    PurEvl going out gassed and not half assed...

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    oh...this was geared to OT :rofl: See i read something and always lump myself in with everyone, its my fault i do it all the time. If thats the jist of the post then its dead on because its all people do on the internet for fucks sake. I didnt take a day off in my first 8 years..not one. I need them now of course. But not when i was younder and pushing for max gains.

    Point taken
     
  5. Uglybob69

    Uglybob69 I miss beer.

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    When my body cries for mercy I just eat more food and work out harder!!
     
  6. bigdamray

    bigdamray New Member

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    Yep, Christophers is correct. This is geared towards the average gym rat not the elite or the incredibly sexy!!
     
  7. Mystery Guest

    Mystery Guest New Member

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    I read this same article over at the P. Muscle forums. :o
     
  8. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    so why'd you post it here? we're all both who drive ferrari's and have 50 model g/f's each :o:mamoru:
     
  9. alwayz

    alwayz OT F+N lurker crew

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    quick question...I am also 35, training natural, I had test done a few months ago and came back 755 out of 800(i think it was out of 800). what (if any) advantage is this over you that is on HRT that is dead center(im guessing 600-ish)

    what is the magic test number one should be looking for?
     
  10. KingGargantuan

    KingGargantuan ♖♘♗♕♔♗♘♖

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    average gym goer uses overtraining as an excuse to take a break.

    i dont need an excuse to take a break. :big grin:

    though i'm pretty sure when i was running 3 miles every other day on a treadmill and supplementing weights on the off days, i was overtraining. or under recovering. or both. because when i stopped working out, i lost 20lbs in a month and my resting heart rate was elevated constantly.

    :eek4:
     
  11. Mike McDermott

    Mike McDermott It's evolution, baby. OT Supporter

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    it's hard to overtrain on volume, but it's not nearly as hard to overtrain on high intensity (as in, % of 1RM) lifts.

    imo
     
  12. DCyamaha

    DCyamaha O-line found

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    you all act as if taking a break is bad. (if you're not thuper duper thuper ray man)wtf. I unintentionally take a week break every 4 months or so and when i come back the next week, i feel better.
     
  13. jokka

    jokka OT Supporter

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  14. bigdamray

    bigdamray New Member

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    You guys are missing the point!!
     
  15. Mike McDermott

    Mike McDermott It's evolution, baby. OT Supporter

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    Yeah, recovery is something people often overlook, yet it's so important.
     
  16. PurEvl

    PurEvl going out gassed and not half assed...

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    yes the are as did i, at first. It makes sense now though when its put into perspective and the target audience
     
  17. GOGZILLA

    GOGZILLA Double-Uranium Member

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    i did D1 rowing two practices a day + weights at some point in the afternoon for 2 years and kept getting bigger and stronger. bottom line is most people are complete vaginas
     
  18. bigdamray

    bigdamray New Member

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    Post of the year right here!!!:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:
     
  19. BarbaraWaltersPegleg

    BarbaraWaltersPegleg Irish Guido

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    dUDE everyone is powned
     
  20. PurEvl

    PurEvl going out gassed and not half assed...

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    i did semi pro ball and trained every day as well and even competed the same year. I certainly dont like to hear whining.
     
  21. Mike McDermott

    Mike McDermott It's evolution, baby. OT Supporter

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    :cool: what position?
     
  22. GOGZILLA

    GOGZILLA Double-Uranium Member

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    yeah, they cant see me
     
  23. PurEvl

    PurEvl going out gassed and not half assed...

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    d-end...didnt last long, double groin tear in a scrimmage :hs: Still to this day i have issues with it since i didnt get them fixed with surgery.
     
  24. Mike McDermott

    Mike McDermott It's evolution, baby. OT Supporter

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    :hs: That sounds painful.
     
  25. TZ

    TZ Banned

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    i dunno man i like my week break after 3 weeks of hard work. especially since i train at 90% or over most of the time. before when i wasn't taking breaks i would actually get weaker eventually , and fail on lifts that i had gotten before. i dont know if it was that i wans't recovering right or what but yeah...also, i think the week break gives you a chance to heal. i dunno, can you lift heavy as fuck (90% and over) for more than 3 weeks in a row and actually get stronger over a long period of time?

    "The one draw back to using this method is that you cannot train with weights above 90 percent for much longer than three weeks before the nervous system begins to weaken. When this happen your strength will begin to diminish. This is one of the major reasons why progressive overload will only work for so long. With this in mind and knowing how good this method is in the development of strength development Westside set out to find away around this three-week barrier. The way to over come it is to switch the exercises used for the max effort method every one to tree weeks. This keep the body fresh so the method can be used year round. " - dave tate
     
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