SRS The problem most guys have in dating and relationships...

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by DiggityDogg, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. DiggityDogg

    DiggityDogg Guest

    The naïve guy in the dating world…

    I’ve heard tale that only 20% of young men are succeeding with 80% of the young women out there, and it likely has a ring of truth to it. Why does this seem to be the case? Is this because that 20% of young men are jerks and that young women are attracted to jerks? This is the excuse that we usually hear but do you actually buy into that? I don’t, and I will explain why.

    I have been involved in the dating scene for a long time and I have been working with men and relationships via online forums, discussions, face to face conversations, etc for at least 4 years. What I see and what I have learned is that the vast majority of relationship situations seem to follow certain patterns and trends.
    One pattern by itself isn’t usually enough to figure out exactly what’s going on in a given situation, but when you see several patterns that all follow the trend you can get a pretty good idea of what is going on, even without knowing the situation personally. You might find an exception to the rule here and there, but when multiple patterns all follow a certain trend (and they usually do) then I have learned to dissect such scenarios with very high accuracy.

    There are many things that men typically do wrong in relationships & dating which cause them to remain single and/or get used & discarded by their partner.

    What I will focus on first is how naïve guys can be. I cannot even begin to tell you how naïve most guys are. I couldn’t name how many times I have seen a scenario where a guy asks for help regarding a girl and his story begins with things like, “OMG she is so incredible! She is so smart, so nice, we have a lot in common, we talk all of the time for hours on end, she tells me that she doesn’t know what she would do with out me, I love her, etc” and then they lead into the problem they are having. The problem could be about asking her out, going into how she has been distant in their relationship lately, how the ex boyfriend came back into the picture, she doesn’t know what she wants, she’s not ready for a relationship, she’s been hurt, etc. It doesn’t matter. When I see the story start off like this, I already see one of those trends developing.
    As I mentioned, the trends tend to follow the same pattern with very few exceptions. When a guy starts off by trying to tell everyone how great and amazing the girl is, I already see their inexperience and how naïve they are-especially when they cannot move on from the girl. When this is the case, the next trend tends to be that it doesn’t work out.

    I could point out over 100 stories from guys who think that their crush is the best girl on the planet and how they couldn’t imagine going on without her. Just from my little view I see this same story all of the time and it really is a naïve/immature way of looking at things. Being this naïve and immature very likely plays a role in why the girl isn’t hooking up with the guy, and as such, this naïve mindset needs to be addressed.

    For one, the girl isn’t the best girl in the world. That whole point of view is skewed and it is fueled by infatuation and immaturity. If there are countless guys claiming that their girl is the best, then are all of these girls the best? Or is everyone wrong but you? Or is it instead that there are PLENTY of fish in the sea that you could be equally attracted to and the problem lies with the guy himself? Trust me, it is the latter. However these naïve guys don’t see it this way. They see this one girl as the one, and most of the time they haven’t even dated her yet. Not only that, but most of the time the girl isn’t even interested in him. Does he respect her decision and move on? No, he shamelessly disrespects her decision, disrespects his feelings, and makes an utter fool of himself by continuing to try and change her mind rather than move on. He does this all because she is so great and different, and in many cases has wasted years of his life by doing this.

    The fact is that she is not different. She is just as good as many other women out there no matter how much his childish infatuation tells him otherwise. He does himself a huge disservice by clinging to this flawed and immature mindset. But that’s not all. This infatuation, this placing of her on a pedestal, this worshipping also builds the foundation for failure. You see these failures come to fruition when guys like this somehow manage to secure a relationship with his crush.

    You see, a successful adult relationship requires two mature and equal individuals whom have equal amounts of respect for each other. When one partner enters the relationship while placing the other upon this pedestal they create a small hierarchy with their crush on top. Things aren’t equal, it’s all about the person on top and what he can do to please her, make her happy, make her love him, etc.
    Unfortunately this formula only works in the movies. In the real world in order to get respect you must not only give it, you must demand it in return. If you do not and you only try to respect your partner while ignoring the disrespect given in return, you create a situation where they can disrespect you freely. And they will continue to do so because they can, because you are too weak to put an end to it.
    What does this weak behavior cost you? It costs you your partners respect, and without their respect you cost the relationship it’s future. If your partner doesn’t respect you then they are not “in love” with you. A relationship lacking love, lacking that chemistry, lacking that challenge will inevitably fail. The person who lacks that love for their partner will inevitably be lured elsewhere. I see it all of the time.

    This is why those naïve guys have so much trouble. A girl who fails to see this weak guy for whom he is and ends up being in a relationship with him before learning about his immaturity, the trends show that she will inevitably become distant, sometimes angry, sometimes take advantage of him, etc. Any self respecting guy would end the relationship at this point, but these guys do not. They cling because this is their pedestal woman. It doesn’t get better than her (in their naïve mindset) so they continue to humiliate themselves by clinging to her harder than ever-which is the very reason she became distant to begin with. Inevitably it will end, sometimes with her having cheated or having found another man first.

    Now if the girl picked up on these naïve behaviors from the beginning and wasn’t attracted to him for his weakness, most of these guys continue to cling to her like the above guy did. They continue to waste time, continue to follow her around, continue to hope that she will change her mind. But she won’t, and nor should she. There is nothing attractive about a guy who has such low self value where he throws himself desperately at someone. Happiness comes from within. These guys can’t find it by placing the burden on someone else. No girl wants that burden nor will find a guy like this to be attractive. At least not for long.

    In order to be attractive to someone else, you must not only believe that you are worthy, but you must act like it as well. A guy who is worth something wouldn’t cling to a girl who rejected him. Think about it from her perspective. She just told a guy that she wasn’t interested and all he did with that rejection was continue to want her and vie for her attention.
    Did he demonstrate any self value? No. If he doesn’t have it then how is she supposed to see it? A person who had self value and self respect would not continue to throw himself at someone who didn’t want him. He would move on.
    The same goes for the guy who is in a relationship. If his girl does cheat or disrespect him, would a man of self value ignore this and plead for her to come back? She had just committed the biggest insult to him possible! His reaction is to want her back? That shows just how little the guy thinks of himself and even if she did come back the relationship is doomed because no one will be happy in a relationship with someone who thinks so little of themselves.

    When you see 20% of the young men out there getting 80% of the young women, what you end up seeing is the other 80% of guys as her “friend”, as the naïve guy who continues to go after the girl despite her rejection. You see this other 80% of men being the guy who lets his girlfriend walk all over him, disrespect him, and eventually cheat on him with one of the other 20% of guys out there.

    This isn’t about “scoring”, this is about happiness, and you can’t have it by having so little self respect and being so naïve.

    Guys need to grow up. The vast majority of guys out there live in fantasy land. They have no idea how it really works and they believe that all you need in a relationship is to kiss the hind end of a girl. There is nothing fun for a girl with a guy who kisses her rear all day. She’s going to end up finding her fun elsewhere.

    So how do you avoid being this pushover? How do you become one of the successful 20%? It’s not hard at all. All it takes is growing up and learning that you should respect yourself first and foremost. Respecting yourself means that you do not tolerate people using you. Respecting yourself means pursuing your goals. I’ve heard that if you want to avoid the friendzone then you must refuse to go there from the very beginning. If you start getting friendzoned then pull the brakes, make it clear where you want this to go. If you still head in the friendzone direction with someone, call it off. Move on. Don’t ever settle. Think about yourself, otherwise you will end up being unhappy.

    What are young women looking for? Women will tell you a lot of things, but what women respond to are confidence, self respect, challenge, and fun. If you refuse to settle and you make it clear you will not go into friendzone, nor be taken advantage of, you already demonstrate the first three. The only other thing left is to be fun.

    Fun does not involve sitting down with her and talking about your relationship, where you want it to go, how she is the best thing since sliced bread, etc. Fun is more about DOING. You want her to be your girlfriend? Don’t talk to her about it, ask her out on a date without telling her how much you like her, then go on the date and have FUN. Do this and keep directing the relationship toward your goal through actions, not through words.

    That is one of the most common problems I see with the other 80% of guys. All they do is talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and more talk. There is no fun in this. It’s time to stop talking and start doing. Take the lead, start planning things, start doing things, and no more talk about it. No more asking if it’s okay. DO IT. If you start talking then she will run you in circles. She expects you to be in the drivers seat, not the passenger seat.

    To make things fun, flirt with her, tease her about stuff, keep things light and fun, take her on dates while making sure she knows it’s a date. Take the lead, do things. Before you know it you two will be a fun happy couple. If she betrays something, or disrespects you, it goes back into what I mentioned before. You must stand up for yourself and demand that she respects you, even if it costs the relationship. If she does it while disregarding your feelings, you must end it. If you do not then you only teach her that she can do this to you and get away with it. It will happen again and again until she has lost enough interest in you and leaves on her own.

    I’ll leave it here for now and take questions.
     
  2. NovedYarg

    NovedYarg Drinks Their Kool-Aid

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    Cliffs?
     
  3. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Are you saying this from personal experience, that women want to be passive and entertained, as opposed to active and entertaining? Cuz I've never found women like that very attractive ... meek followers who want someone else to provide amusement that they would get no enjoyment providing themselves.
     
  4. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Moreover, this view of "equally great women" out there is erroneous. The question is whether there are women out there who are equally great for you. It's about the quality of the relationship, not about stand-alone qualities that are impressive.
     
  5. DiggityDogg

    DiggityDogg Guest

    What I was talking about there was that if you are interested in a girl, and she you, then she expects you to take the initiative. Sitting and "talking" about how you like her every time you meet her instead of actually taking the initiative and directing the relationship. Instead of saying, "I really like you, do you like me" or something like that all of the time, instead, ask her out, set up a date, show up, be fun, etc.
     
  6. DiggityDogg

    DiggityDogg Guest

    JJJ, you're missing the entire point. If she isn't interested in you or isn't reciprocating, then she isn't great for you is she?
     
  7. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    Awesome post. Wish some of my friends would heed this kind of advice, but some of them actually get angry when I suggest acting less wimpy.
     
  8. DiggityDogg

    DiggityDogg Guest

    Because they are too dense or too stubborn to admit that what they are doing is wrong.
     
  9. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Agreed
     
  10. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    This is usually true, but not really because they value the guy's ability to approach. It's basically because they're timid about approaching guys they like.

    Meanwhile, there are those girls with the guts to go get the guy.
     
  11. DiggityDogg

    DiggityDogg Guest

    There are, but in that situation they still expect the guy to do something rather that shuffle his feet and take no initiative. I've seen guys do that with aggressive women too. They usually get dumped shortly after.
     
  12. nish81

    nish81 OT Supporter

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    Great post.
    However, I have a question. Say there is this girl, and although she isn't the best one in the world, she is a great girl. When I say 'great', I mean, (more specifically) a thoughtful, kind and caring person. I could give you examples of the things this girl does for you, (the 'you' being an imaginary 'you'): she bakes a special birthday cake for you herself because you have anaphylectic allergies, (eggs and nuts..) she gets you the special double-disc DVD of a movie that you always wanted, she doesn't care about the fact that half her friends hate you, she wastes all of her phone credit on you, she refuses to let you buy her anything, (okay, that's just odd) etc, (I can go on..)
    Now I'm just wondering..in the first bit of your post, you say that guys who think their girl is the greatest girl in the world, etc. are being naive. However, if a girl like this comes along, isn't it okay to say that she is a pretty great girl? (But no, not the best in the world or anything, just a great girl).
    I'm just asking..I know that you may have been referring to a girl that doesn't like the guy back, but I'm also wondering whether this is a valid example of a great girl? I mean, I know that being slightly selfish, watching out for yourself, etc. is a good part of a relationship, a mature part. But if neither of you are selfish, and you both watch out more equally for each other?
     
  13. DiggityDogg

    DiggityDogg Guest

    Yeah, I'd say that girl is a pretty cool person. In fact, in most of these situations the girl is pretty cool. What I was pointing out was that there was a strong correlation between guys who think that their crush is so great and that they can never get over her to guys who have low self esteem, low self respect, etc. Plus most of these guys never get the girl and waste years on wanting her and her alone. I've seen a guy who wasted 8 years of his life on one girl and I still couldn't break through his thick skull. The girl always rejects him but he kept trying. It was pathetic.
     
  14. chlywly

    chlywly Active Member

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    BREATH OF FRESH AIR THANK YOU BROTHER... I'm sitting here severely depressed ALL b/c of the naive/immature mindset, the loss of self respect I have induced and subjected myself two in my past relationship and with the current ex, whom I thought was so incredible I gave in almost every instant to please her, and BAM i became challange less, she became confused about her feelings........ My life became dull and simply unworthy when I wasnt around her, b/c I wasnt trying to impress her I suppose...

    its ridiculous, you are 100% right... BACK to my game, back to me! :) thank you, im feeling much better simply having read SOMEONE ELSE say the same things i've been telling myself but un able to put into practice.
     
  15. Martinj

    Martinj New Member

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    Cliffs:"
    Guys need to grow up. The vast majority of guys out there live in fantasy land. They have no idea how it really works and they believe that all you need in a relationship is to kiss the hind end of a girl. There is nothing fun for a girl with a guy who kisses her rear all day. She’s going to end up finding her fun elsewhere."

    Dont put girls on a pedestal, make it an even relationship, and if she doesnt want to be more than friends, go after someone else.
     
  16. McFly

    McFly New Member

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    I am so guilty of these actions...:hs: But have made progress over the last few months. I am still in disbelief of my "perfect girl" who is now engaged to a karaoke DJ... It's sad because for the year and a half I knew her, I had no idea she would make some of the decisions she has lately. It sucks I have no control over what others do, I guess they learn the hard way.
     
  17. niquesuave06

    niquesuave06 New Member

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    :eek3: that was all very true
     
  18. johan

    johan Active Member

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    There are no cliffs because every word is valuable. Read it over several times, the deeper layers of meaning will come out over time.
     
  19. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    This is only bad if the reason you're doing it is so that the ball lands in her court. "I really want you," the guy says, to pressure the girl, implicitly assuming that it's her responsibility to alleviate his desire.

    On the other hand, if you're just saying it matter-of-factly because it's what you feel and because it's true, then it's very nice indeed.
     

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