GUN The Police do it again

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by [DWI], Oct 5, 2009.

  1. [DWI]

    [DWI] Master of Nothing

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    I tried to do the bold cliff notes, but just read the whole thing. After all this isn't the main forum.


    http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/..._Cover-Up_After_Shooting.htm?=protectandserve


    PHOENIX (CN) - A homeowner says a Phoenix police officer shot him six times in the back during a 911 home-invasion call, and the 911 tape recorded the officer's partner saying, "That's all right. Don't worry about it. I got your back. ... We clear?" The family says the officers were not aware that the 911 call was still recording as they spoke about covering up the shooting.
    In their complaint in Maricopa County Court, Anthony and Lesley Arambula say an armed intruder "crashed through the front window" of their home on Sept. 17, 2008 and ran into one of their son's bedrooms.
    Anthony, worried about his son who was still in his bedroom, says he "held the intruder calmly at gunpoint" and called 911.
    Phoenix Police officers already in the neighborhood heard the crash of the Arambulas' window. When they approached the house, Lesley says, she told Sgt. Sean Coutts that her husband was inside holding the intruder at gunpoint. Lesley says Coutts failed to pass on that information to the two other officers.
    Inside the house, the Arambulas say, Officer Brian Lilly shot Anthony six times in the back while he was still on the phone with the 911 operator - twice when he was on the ground.
    The officers ran into the bedroom after Anthony told them, "You just killed ... you just killed the homeowner. The bad guy is in there."
    The complaint states that Officer Lilly "admitted that it was only after Tony was laying, bullet-ridden, on the ground that he assessed the situation. The 911 tape continued to record what happened even after Officer Lilly unloaded his weapon into Tony, including Officer Lilly's post-shooting, one-word 'assessment': 'Fuck.'
    "Tony believed he was going to die; the 911 tape records his plaintive goodbye to his family: '... I love you ... I love you.' Then Tony made what he believed was a dying request to the officers; he did not want his young family to see him shot and bloodied. Officers callously ignored his request and painfully dragged Tony by his injured leg, through the home and out to his backyard patio, where they left him bloodied and shot right in front of Lesley, Matthew and Zachary."
    The Arambulas say the officers later dragged Anthony onto gravel, then put him on top of the hot hood of a squad car, and "drove the squad car down the street with Tony lying on top, writing in pain."
    According to the complaint, Lilly can be heard on the 911 tape telling Coutts, "We fucked up."
    Lilly says on the tape that he did not know where Anthony's gun was when he shot him and that he "opened fire because he heard loud noises and saw someone who looked like he might be the 'Hispanic' male they were pursuing" before getting to the Arambulas' house, according to the complaint.
    The complaint states: "Sgt. Coutts knew that officers has just shot up and likely killed an innocent homeowner and the husband of Lesley, with whom he had spoken before entering the home, instead of the armed intruder. Sgt. Coutts was quick to commence the cover-up of their terrible mistake. Sgt. Coutts asked Office Lilly where Tony's gun was at the time Officer Lilly had opened fire on Tony. Officer Lilly admitted that he did not know where Tony's gun was: 'I don't know. I heard screaming and I fired.'"
    Lilly later told a police internal affairs investigator that Anthony had pointed his gun in his direction, "in the 'ready' position," the complaint states. But Anthony Arambula says he was facing away from the officers, who could not have even seen his gun.
    The complaint continues: "Still not knowing that he is being recorded n the 911 tape, Sgt. Coutts interrupted Officer Lilly's admission and apology with his assurance that the cover-up would commence: 'That's all right. Don't worry about it. I got your back. ... We clear?'"
    After the shooting, the Arambulas say, the Phoenix Police Department treated them "like suspects in a drug bust," denying Lesley, Michael and Zachary information about Anthony's condition and denying friends and family members access to him at the hospital.
    Anthony Arambula survived, but continues to suffer pain, which he expects will last for the rest of his life.
    The City of Phoenix and Officer Dzenan Ahmetovic also are named as defendants.
    The Arambulas seek punitive damages for gross negligence, civil rights violations, failure to supervise, excessive force, deliberate indifference to medical needs, false arrest, and emotional distress. They are represented by Michael Manning with son Morrison Hecker.
     
  2. Admitted

    Admitted I shouldn't be on OT right now.

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    Should win on every count, except maybe civ. rights. violations.
     
  3. Matt2000ss

    Matt2000ss OT Supporter

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    yea, i read that the otherday. pretty fucked up
     
  4. THT

    THT The easy way is always mined

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    Someone's gonna get paid...
     
  5. I believe this was discussed here a few months ago. There's a little more info available here now, but the story is basically the same. The cops are really screwed here.

    ib Smartypants finds his way in here to call us all anti-police.
     
  6. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    There was a thread on BARFCom about it

    IA cleared the cops of any wrong doing :coolugh:
     
  7. Admitted

    Admitted I shouldn't be on OT right now.

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    Seriously?
     
  8. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    lol

    Panel clears policeman in accidental shooting
    Homeowner hurt in hunt for intruder files suit
    by Michael Ferraresi - Sept. 26, 2009 12:00 AM
    The Arizona Republic .
    A Phoenix police officer who mistakenly shot an armed homeowner during a search for an intruder was cleared of wrongdoing this week by a committee that reviews such shootings.

    The ruling by the Phoenix Use of Force Board determined Officer Brian Lilly acted within police policy in the incident, in which he fired six shots at the homeowner amid the confusion of a home invasion last September.

    The shooting hospitalized homeowner Tony Arambula, who earlier this year sought a $5.75 million settlement in the case.
    Lilly and Phoenix Sgt. Sean Coutts were named in a lawsuit filed last week in Maricopa County Superior Court.

    Arambula, 36, was armed and holding a suspect at bay when he suffered gunshot wounds to his back and arm, according to the complaint.

    Arambula claimed Lilly shot him twice as he lay bleeding on the floor of his living room, his wife and two young sons nearby.

    The suspect, Angel Anastacio Canales, had broken into Arambula's home near 32nd Street and Thomas Road as officers tracked him from a "shots-fired" call in the area.

    Arambula had the gunman cornered in his 12-year-old son's room when the officer opened fire.

    "This is the type of thing that so severely demeans the credibility of these (police) review boards," said Michael Manning, the attorney representing Arambula.

    "Physically, it would have been impossible for (Lilly) to see Tony's face or the gun," he said. "They admit on the 911 call that they didn't warn him."

    Officer Jerry Gannon, Lilly's representative from the Phoenix Law Enforcement Association, said it took less than one minute from when officers entered the home searching for a Hispanic male suspect to the when Lilly reacted to seeing Arambula holding a gun.

    Gannon and other members of the organization's board said the shooting was difficult to avoid, considering the fluidity of the emergency scene.

    "If Brian would have known there was a homeowner in there, he probably would have hesitated," Gannon said, "but if he had hesitated, and it was the (suspect), the outcome could have been tragic."

    Phoenix Public Safety Manager Jack Harris will review the Use of Force Board's ruling and make an official determination on Lilly's shooting.
    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2009/09/26/20090926phxarambula0926.html
     
  9. D-FENS

    D-FENS New Member

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    These days, I'm more afraid of police than I am of criminals.
    Especially considering that police often are criminals.
     
  10. phrozenlikwid

    phrozenlikwid New Member

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  11. copeland

    copeland smarter than you

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    IT makes sense...if the cops didn't have the information and they have a gun in the scenario....of course they won't get blamed...

    But the city is going to pay...
     
  12. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    What? They tried to cover up the entire thing :ugh:
     
  13. Admitted

    Admitted I shouldn't be on OT right now.

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    still will get to court. i still think they win a large suit or the city settles, despite with IA said.
     
  14. crazynova

    crazynova OT Supporter

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    Because all the news reports about police are cases of wrong doing? There are FAR MORE good officers than bad officers in America. Most do the right thing all the time. In situations like this, I can see how the shooting would happen in the heat of the moment with a lack of updated information (in a large department, info has to go through the call taker, and then the dispatcher has to read it and get it to officers, which they likely wouldn't in a situation where they were actively chasing a guy), but the attempted cover up is wrong and the officers should be fired becase of it.
     
  15. Admitted

    Admitted I shouldn't be on OT right now.

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    and charged with manslaughter
     
  16. D-FENS

    D-FENS New Member

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    Regarding protection from somebody attacking me, I rely on myself, I have no confidence whatsoever that the police will actually be able to protect me in a dangerous situation.
    Regarding after I've been a victim of a crime, police don't do anything there either. Both when my van was broken into, and when a friend of mine was robbed at gunpoint and had his car stolen right in front of my house, both times the cops drove down the one road that leads into my neighborhood (anyone entering or leaving has to take this road), came directly to my house which is right at the "entrance" of our neighborhood, asked what was stolen and a description of the guys that did it, then they immediately left the neighborhood. Don't drive around the neighborhood for a while or anything, just write some shit down, then leave. Why would they bother looking for the actual criminals? They could be dangerous guys and it would probably take some actual effort on their part to find them, why would they bother with that if they could just hand out speeding tickets and hassle kids playing with firecrackers in the alley instead?

    The only time police still seem to be useful these days is dealing with car accidents and determining who is at fault. Other than that, I don't see much purpose to them.
     
  17. crazynova

    crazynova OT Supporter

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    When people break into a car, or rob someone and steal their car, they generally don't stick around the neighborhood. Perhaps you don't realize that what they write down on scene is basic info. They then go back to the station or so sit somewhere and write a crime report, which goes to detectives to be worked. If there is no evidence, the case is impossible to solve. Even if there is only circumstantial evidence, and they know who did it, they can't do anything without hard proof. As for looking for the criminals, cops run license plates all the time. I guarantee that a broadcast was put out looking for the car that was stolen and they did look.

    I guess you don't realize that patrol officers are there to patrol, to show a presence and deal with shit like traffic and kids doing stupid shit thats against the law. I wouldn't expect you to understand how things work though...
     
  18. crazynova

    crazynova OT Supporter

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    Can't be charged with manslaughter if the guy didn't die...
     
  19. Admitted

    Admitted I shouldn't be on OT right now.

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    my bad, thought he did.
     
  20. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    The more I think about it the more I believe it is bad new to hold a criminal at gunpoint and wait for the cops to arrive. Worst case senario is something like this.

    I've posted before about the one incident that I actually discuss where I drew on somebody stealing my neighbors car. Was a instant reaction thing, no reasoning. I've played it out in my head 11ty billion times what would of been the possible outcomes. Worst is exactly what happened here. I call the cops, hold criminal at gunpoint, I get shot by cops. Best case I get pulled into court, criminal claims to be innocent, I'm some gun nut who drew on him when he walked up to some car with a broken window and threatened to kill him. He though maybe I was the one who was trying to steal the car (my word against his, miss 40 days of work for court.

    I decided that if there is a next time I going to either stop the treat if I feel my life is on the line, or just strait up tell the mofo to run as far as he can because I'm calling the cops as soon as he leaves or he is going to have a the worst day of his life.
     
  21. copeland

    copeland smarter than you

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    That's not clear...Obviously COUTTS did attempt to cover up, However it appears that officer LILY had admitted a mistake.

    I know where you coming from, prima facie, this is a coverup, but the technicality - which is the use of force and information gathering, would likely assert that LILY acted in good faith.

    That's why LILLY was likely cleared and the City will be on the hook.
     
  22. pyite

    pyite Member

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    I agree 11ty percent with this. I dont want to get shot by the cops.
     
  23. apman0000

    apman0000 OT Supporter

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    1 more example of a couple bad cops destroying public trust and abusing their power. and to make it worse the good cops look the other way and allow this shit to continue as does the community etc.

    this ass hole should be in prison for shooting an innocent man and this family shouldn't have to work another day of their lives with the $ the police department should have to pay them for the unbelievable level of abuse of power used in this instance.

    yes there are some good cops out there but shit like this is far to common for citizens to actually trust the police department to do the right thing.

    that piece of shit cop should be raped in prison for what he did but nope, he's getting away with it

    honest cops should be more disgusted with bad cops than the rest of the community but it doesn't seem to be that way
     
  24. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    Dragging him out of his house and throwning him on the hood of the car and then driving?

    What the fuck is that?
     
  25. GlassUser

    GlassUser send an email not a pm OT Supporter

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    I can't imagine what else they could have done to make the situation more absurd and excessive.
     

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