MIL The Pen or the Sword?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Jyokker, Feb 4, 2006.

  1. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    Ever been asked this question?

    I know that in the Marines, disciplining a subordinate can get physical.
    Does anyone know, given the option of paperwork or physical punishment and the subordinate chose physical, could an AF Sgt make his subordinate perform push-ups or other PT related exercises in lieu of paperwork?
     
  2. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    Why don't you and post it?
    Or you could contribute to the thread by telling of your own experiences, or entertain me with an Irish jig.
     
  3. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    :rofl: :rofl: :wtf:
     
  4. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    I figure it would fall under the AF's new baby: FIT-TO-FIGHT program.
     
  5. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    Well, the AF got rid of the bike test, and decided to follow suit with the rest of the branches.
    More here
     
  6. darnit

    darnit New Member

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    Navy reg prohibit physical punishment.But you can give them extra physical training!!
    But with small infractions and a good leader, there is no such thing as punishment. They lack training, and it your job to give it to them. And it should be geared to the area they need work in.
     
  7. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    It is around for those jokers that have a waiver for impact exercise.
     
  8. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    Well, if the Airman chooses his poison then you don't call it punishment. You call it Motivated Physical Training.
     
  9. darnit

    darnit New Member

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    That fact you are even offering it is called HAZING. Don't try and justify your own interupation of the rules.
    By the regs, there is really only one person that can give punishment in any service members direct COC, thier CO. Any one else can correct training deficiency's. And the training is supposed to be directly releated to what they are lacking in. How is excersise direct a realation to say.. being late? It isn't.
    If you offer PT instead of written councilling, that hazing.I just went through a leadership course followed by an ethics course. And this was one of the question put to the trainers in both courses.
    (sorry for SP errors, got to get ready for the bowl)
     
  10. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    UCMJ: in context Commanding officer may impose nonjudicial punishment. Listed among nonjudicial punishment is:
    TA DA! extra duties, including fatigue or other duties, for not more than 14 (45) consecutive days;

    I understand the Commanding officer has to provide this NJP, and the member can decide to waive NJP and opt for court-martial.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2006
  11. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    Where is the IGgoat on this? :x:
     
  12. darnit

    darnit New Member

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    or did the words COMANDING OFFICER escape you?
    Again.. PUNISHMENT.
    It's real simple.. you, or anyone one that is NOT the CO can not "PUNISH" someone. You can correct a training deficiency(sp). And it must be directly related to the area in question.
    If you do otherwise, YOU stand the risk of going to NJP. If a CO supports this policy and the member in question is smart enough, he request a General court martial(thats the big cheese). And they will win.
    And it's not why the military is going to shit.
    It's called protection of an idividuals rights.
    What if you have some one whose late, you make them do push ups instead of givening the some training, like making them muster early.They do it again. Wheres your proof they were late? What if johhny earth sack was late once,but becuase of his other action you write him up? He goes to NJP and has proof that you only gave AJ squared away push ups for the same offense. Can he call discrimination? Possibly..
    Extra PT is a stupid punishment,Illegal for anyone BUT the CO,and is not in keeping with the high standards we need to set as leaders in the military.
    I keep a log book. If someone is late once, I mark it. If they are late twice they get a Letter for the record. 3 times, councilling with training, forth a write up.During this whole time I am working with the memebr to find out WHY they are late. They may have other problems that need a chaplins help, but lets close them down and just make them do push ups..thats a sure fire way to get them in line..can you feel the sarcasim.
    Look at it another way.. if you dont find out whats going on, they off themselves, and you had the chance to save them. You have just wasted all that $$ we spent on training them. When a little more time and effort, you could have turned them around.
    Now all that being said. yes, when I was an e-1 through e-3, I did PT instead of getting a write up. Did it help? No, did it make me want to talk to that person.. no.. It just made me hide my problems better till they blew up and I found myself behind the 8 ball.
    But lucky for me, I ended up with a great supervisor and now I have 2 years till I retire,or join the Army as the Navy has that stupid HYT policy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2006
  13. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    I think my post escaped you.
     
  14. darnit

    darnit New Member

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    no, I think my first post went.. zoooom right past you. You originaly asked

    Does anyone know, given the option of paperwork or physical punishment and the subordinate chose physical, could an AF Sgt make his subordinate perform push-ups or other PT related exercises in lieu of paperwork?


    The answer is no, and AF sgt can not.

    I then went in depth to point out that the only person that can give punishment was the CO. I then went indepth to explain how you could give training..

    and then you reply that the CO can give physical punishment...

    So let me simplify.
    If you or anyone not the CO gives out punishment.. you can get screwed. If you offer an alternative;lets say he/she was late and you say give me 200 push ups and you wont get a councilling.. you can get screwed.
    nuff said
     
  15. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    This thread needs some turbomaniacal, stat. :ugh:
     
  16. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    you suck. :squint:

    somebody has to be wrong, damnit! :madfawk:
     
  17. TRN

    TRN Well-Known Member

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    If it's done, it's kept on the hush...you don't talk about that shit.

    IB20/20investigation
     
  18. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    You made up for it in your other post. :cuddle:
     
  19. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    Thanks for your IG input Turbo.
     
  20. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    BTW This was my encrypted call for IG help.
     
  21. Ranger-AO

    Ranger-AO I'm here for the Taliban party. Moderator

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    works better if you PM our calls for help. :fawk:
     
  22. Jyokker

    Jyokker The trouser snake is very aggressive. It will corn

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    unpossible
     

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