The Myth Of Waxy Maize Starch

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by Drewski, Feb 9, 2009.

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  1. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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  2. gsxtasyd

    gsxtasyd Lift Big........Eat Big........Sleep Big........GE

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    from what I understand all that study states is the insulin levels are lower with WMS than with maltodextrin/dextrose.

    WMS isn't suppose to spike your insulin levels like sugar. its supposed to make food get through your stomach faster...so it seems the study didn't really measure what it was supposed to...
     
  3. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    still supposed to spike you blood sugar (which is where you muscles get the glucose from) and insulin (t is what helps with the uptake of glucose from the blood to your muscles), which according to this it doesn't.

    the whole point is that it gets through the stomach faster so it can be broken down and absorbed into the blood as fast as possible and spike the insulin along with it. at least thats how its supposed to work as far as I know it
     
  4. Sylva

    Sylva New Member

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    Agree, WMS is crappy. Karbolyn or Vitargo for me.
     
  5. BlackWRX

    BlackWRX New Member

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    what do you think the point of an insulin spike is?
     
  6. gsxtasyd

    gsxtasyd Lift Big........Eat Big........Sleep Big........GE

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    You guys are confusing two things....1)insulin spike and 2) replenishing glyocgen

    While WMS will not cause as much insulin to be released as maltodex/dex etc. Thats not the point of WMS. WMS gets to your stomach much faster than malto/dex. So even tho ONCE dextrose gets into your blood it spikes insulin and starts replenishing glycogen stores faster than WMS. By that time WMS has already been working for 20 minutes replenishing glycogen.
     
  7. gsxtasyd

    gsxtasyd Lift Big........Eat Big........Sleep Big........GE

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    WMS/Karbolyn/Vitargo


    Its all the same shit...its the molecular weight of them that makes them effective.
     
  8. gsxtasyd

    gsxtasyd Lift Big........Eat Big........Sleep Big........GE

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    from Justin Harris:

    Q: Rob Kreider said at the Arnold strength seminar that we shouldn't use waxy maize cause it dosn't create an insulin surge? is this true?

    A: I've written extensively on this.
    Those commenting on waxy maize's effects on insulin production are, for the most part, speaking on an urelated subject.

    Insulin is secreted in response to blood sugar.
    100g of carbs will produce a resultant insulin production.

    Waxy maize won't produce the level of insulin surge for reasons that make it BETTER.

    The HIGH molecular weight and LOW osmolality of the waxy maize causes a rapid gastric clearance rate. This low osmolality dictates that monosacharides are taken to the blood streams very rapidly. HMW carbs replentish glycogen faster than LMW carbs.


    Sugar causes a huge insulin spike...this is good....when it FINALLY happens after 20min of drawing water into your stomach.
    By the time if finally gets to the small intestine, waxy maize has already been taken up to the muscle and is stored as glycogen.


    Imagine a race with a formula 1 car and a Bentley.

    Now, imagine that the formula 1 car has to be put together before it can start the race.
    Of course it is faster than the bentley when it finally gets going, but by then, the bentley has already finished the race.


    Insulin is very misunderstood by many people.

    What makes waxy maize good is its molecular weight.
    Measuring molecular weight isn't a unique or rare phenomenon. Molecular weight is covered in high school chemistry, and every chemistry class after that.
    The molecular weight of water would go as this:
    Water is 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom.
    The atomic weight of hydrogen is approximately 1.
    The atomic weight of oxygen is approximately 16.
    Take 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen, and you get a combined atomic weight for a single water molecule of 18.
    The molecular weight stems form the statement that one mole of water will have a mass of roughly 18 grams. (weight is used interchangeably here...although weight is only really a component of earth's gravity creating an acceleration of 9.8m/s. Since we don't typically measure molecular mass on other planets, weight and mass are used as the same with this)

    Look up hypotonicity online and you'll see why this is all important.

    A HMW carb in a 15% solution is as much as 20 TIMES as hypotonic as blood.

    Glucose based exercise drinks are often promoted as "isotonic" solutions. This is marketing to an uneducated consumer at its finest.
    The isotonicity of the drinks makes it a POOR choice for its intended use.


    There is actually a book called "Performance Functional Foods" that covers this topic in some depth.
     
  9. gsxtasyd

    gsxtasyd Lift Big........Eat Big........Sleep Big........GE

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    that's wrong. reference above.
     
  10. Sylva

    Sylva New Member

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    NO, WMS is lower quality BY FAR than the other two.
     
  11. gsxtasyd

    gsxtasyd Lift Big........Eat Big........Sleep Big........GE

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    how?
     
  12. JeremyD

    JeremyD New Member

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    ITS JUST FUCKING CARBOHYDRATES PEOPLE!!!!! Not fucking magic in a bottle.
     
  13. gsxtasyd

    gsxtasyd Lift Big........Eat Big........Sleep Big........GE

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    No one said it was magic, I am arguing that the article posted is incorrect.
     
  14. gsxtasyd

    gsxtasyd Lift Big........Eat Big........Sleep Big........GE

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    http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-carbohydrate-supplement-powders.aspx

    states that WMS replenishes glycogen at 70% faster over glucose
    Vitargo is around 68%

    like I said they are about equilivent...what makes you think one is FAR SUPERIOR?

    Except WMS/SOS go for about $3.59/pound and Karbolyn and Vit go for like 10?
     
  15. deznutz

    deznutz New Member

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    bodybuilding.com

    it must be true
     
  16. 4cd-Air

    4cd-Air Rape seemed like the next logical step

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  17. Sylva

    Sylva New Member

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    "Vitargo" extracts the HMW carb from WMS, or any other starchy carb source.

     
  18. deadbolt

    deadbolt New Member

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    OMG A DISCUSSION IS GOING ON!!! STOP THIS AT ONCE
     
  19. gsxtasyd

    gsxtasyd Lift Big........Eat Big........Sleep Big........GE

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    Lol as using their fuckng website as a source.


    too bad despite what they say, independent research shows that my cheap ass WMS starch replenishes glyocgen faster than their "patented" high carb stuff (2%)...

    look its the same shit. if it was "in the processing" the results would show it. Theirs is made from barley. My shit is made from corn and oats, swedish oats actually. Both replenish glycogen stores really quickly, like within 2% of one another. Vitargo is more expensive, if you like it keep using it. But have something concrete to say before you go calling something inferior, research that isn't biased off the manufacturers website.
     
  20. Sylva

    Sylva New Member

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    Info from their site or not, it's not incorrect. Where are you getting your numbers from WMS, Dave barr's research isn't biased. There is proof in that article, you're just choosing to ignore it. You ask for proof, where is yours?
     
  21. gsxtasyd

    gsxtasyd Lift Big........Eat Big........Sleep Big........GE

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    dude STATE THE FUCKING BENEFIT...simple

    I am telling you they both replenish glycogen at the same speed. you said that my is far inferior...in what way? the article just stated the processing...i dont give a shit about processing. any company can say processing. how does it affect replenished glycogen? it doesnt! don't be a tool.
     
  22. 4cd-Air

    4cd-Air Rape seemed like the next logical step

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    [​IMG]
     
  23. Sylva

    Sylva New Member

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    You don't have one study that can prove that! If you would of read Barr's article you would freaking see that. WMS may drop fast, but it doesn't get digested or out of the gut fast.

    Karb/Vitargo actually do what they claim and have had studies done to prove so. Unlike WMS.
     
  24. Frank Dux

    Frank Dux Guest

    I take gatorade powder (sucrose and dextrose) with my WMS. I win. :mamoru:
     
  25. gsxtasyd

    gsxtasyd Lift Big........Eat Big........Sleep Big........GE

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    Yeah POST EM.
    Here's mine
    References

    * Gisolfi CV, et al (1992). Intestinal water absorption from select carbohydrate solutions in humans. Appl. Physiol., 7:2142.
    * Op't Eijnde B, et al (2001). No effects of oral ribose supplementation on repeated maximal exercise and de novo ATP resynthesis. J Appl. Physiol., 91(5): 2275-81.
    * Piehl Aulin K, et al (1999). Muscle glycogen resynthesis rate in humans after supplementation of drinks containing carbohydrates with low and high molecular masses. Eur J. Appl. Physiol., 81: 346-351.
    * Seiple RS, et al (1983). Gastric-emptying characteristics of two glucose polymer-electrolyte solutions. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., 15:366.
    * Shi X, et al (1995). Effects of carbohydrate type and concentration and solution osmolality on water absorption. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., 27:1607.
    * Stephens F, et al (2007). Post-exercise ingestion of a unique, high molecular weight glucose polymer solution improves performance during a subsequent bout of cycling exercise. J. Sports Sci., 1-6.
    * Van Gammeren D, et al (2002). The effects of four weeks of ribose supplementation on body composition and exercise performance in healthy, young, male recreational bodybuilders: A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Curr. Ther. Res. Clin. Exp., 63:486-495.
     
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