The most Powerful Wifi EVAR

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by Peyomp, Oct 17, 2007.

  1. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm thinking of getting a 1W inline amplifier and the highest gain omni-directional antennae available. This will exceed FCC limits by about 100%. But I wanna see how far in all directions I can wifi.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Speaking of which, I actually know the guy who has roof fights for my building.

    If you broadcast this from the 15th floor with nothing around you... how far could you get signal?
     
  3. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    28,491
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    probably get worse range. The amplifier will amp everything -- the signal will become distorted to all hell. Netstumbler may see the signal farther, but good luck connecting, staying connected, and getting decent throughput.
     
  4. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, I don't really believe you. The trucker kit says it works up to 8 miles, and I don't think radiolabs sells faulty equipment. There is no reason why you can't amplify a wifi signal.

    Do you have actual experience with this, or is this theoretical? Can you source this statement?
     
  5. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    28,491
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    actual experience. But go ahead and try. I guess cisco, intel, etc are all just charging thousands for their name and you can do the same with a can of pringles and a buffalo :rolleyes:
     
  6. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, as long as I have a high gain antennae to up the receive... why wouldn't this work? Are you saying that all commercial amplifiers are faulty or something? I really don't know too much about this, but I don't get why it won't work. Can you explain?
     
  7. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    0
  8. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    28,491
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    they're not all faulty. But they're not the correct answer to most questions. Generally speaking, if you need "just a little extra" you can go for a high-gain antenna and it'll help you with infrequent drop-outs or packet loss. However, for poor performance, or poor signal/coverage, the answer is definitely not an amp. Exactly as major carriers opt for numerous smaller wireless cells for coverage, that is the answer for most homes. Thankfully, when one AP doesn't cut it, generally two will be great.

    When you amplify a signal, you amplify everything -- including noise. And if a signal is weak enough to be difficult to pick up with stock hardware, amping it is simply going to make it even harder to get from the noise.

    Proper AP design is going to be good commercial hardware designed for a big antenna, and of course a good commercial antenna. Not to mention there is a LOT of "tuning" going into a long-range wireless network.

    Using an amp on a SOHO gateway is definitely NOT the answer.

    Again, there's a huge difference between "a little more" and adding lots of distance.
     
  9. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    28,491
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    ugh there are many problems with his "addition" I would take it with a grain of salt.
     
  10. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    But in this case, I just want to broadcast as far as possible from a high location. Why wouldn't you want additional power to do this? I'm not trying to solve a noise problem. I see what you're saying there, but thats not what I'm doing. So what if it amplifies the noise. If the noise isn't excessive, it will amplify it for a mile or two more. Right?

    I'm talking about getting a really good antenna as well.
     
  11. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    28,491
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    give it a try if you want.
     
  12. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't see how straight amplification could hurt your odds of getting a useable signal, if you are beyond the range that you can connect to an access point with a good antenna.

    I am gonna try it. My impulse buy of the night was 3 tickets to Honolulu for only $320, so it will have to wait a bit. But I will get this soon. A really good omni antenna and an amplifier.

    I could just get the antenna first, but the kind of ranges I'm wanting to try... a couple miles, probably require amplification me thinks. Will be interesting to play with.
     
  13. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    19,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not just the gain you need to worry about, Peyomp. You also need to increase the squelch to kill the louder background noise. That means that weak transmissions from your portable device are not likely to be loud enough to overcome the squelch limit unless you're much closer to the antenna than Radiolabs claims.
     
  14. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    But a louder 'voice' for my antennae is only going to make it easier for my computer to pick it out from the noise, yeah?
     
  15. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    19,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, but will your computer be able to yell loud enough for the receiver to hear it?
     
  16. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, its a high gain antennae and its input is also through the amplifier. So I would hope so. I would think that the range would be increased, but I'm reading that this varies by router. Some can chew the amplified noise better than others.
     
  17. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown Don't make me make you my hobby

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    16,404
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio
    I think that's the key. As long as you don't start with a noise "problem", then there's no reason you can't amplify it a fair amount without any problems.

    By the way, it just so happens that a pringles can does work.

    :mamoru:
     
  18. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    28,491
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    No. dBs are logrithmic -- means factor of 10. For sake of argument, assume 4dB of signal and 8dB of noise. That is a floor of 4dB and a delta of 4dB. So even at a mild 3dB gain you get approximately 8dB of signal and 16dB of noise (assuming optimum efficiency, something else that is not really possible) so now you have a 8dB floor, and 8dB delta.

    You will make the signal even harder to "see".

    You need more sensitive equipment, not amplification.
     
  19. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    28,491
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    I love how Doc, who has ZERO experience comes in and says it "should" work. No.


    He may not have a noise problem NOW, but after amplification he probably WILL.
     
  20. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    19,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Logarithms aren't always factors of ten. But yes, in this case it's Log(10).

    Carry on.
     
  21. CodeX

    CodeX Guest

    You should just buy a bunch of repeaters (not sure what they are called, pick up a signal and then re-broadcast it to extend range) and go out in the middle of the night and bolt them to the top of a few evenly spaced telephone poles... lol

    seriously though my money is on p07 and that you wont be able to overcome the amplified noise. Also, it is two way communication... are you going to have the same amplifier attached to your laptop?
     
  22. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you're saying the method of amplification will amplify noise more than the signal? But thats only true if there is more noise to begin with, which is almost certainly not the case right?
     
  23. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    8,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay.
    So he has an amplifier on this thing and puts it on the roof and can pick up the signal 8 miles away, line of site and all that.
    And lets say that noise ISN'T a problem (just for the hypothetical mind you).

    If he doesn't have an amplifier on his laptop then how does the laptop send a signal back to the antena on the roof?
     
  24. CarBomber187

    CarBomber187 Guest

    :noes:
     
  25. Peyomp

    Peyomp New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know much about Emag, but... if you increase the transmit power through a high gain antenna, don't you also increase the sensitivity?
     

Share This Page