GUN The Aus gun ban works now only criminals have guns

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by TL1000RSquid, Jan 18, 2007.

  1. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    By Natalie O'Brien

    January 18, 2007 12:00am
    Article from: The Australian


    FROM the waistband of his blue jeans, the Sydney underworld figure pulls out a black handgun and dumps it on the kitchen table in front of me.

    With his other hand he produces a thick wad of bank notes from his jacket pocket. The $5000 he places next to the 9mm Glock pistol, he assures me, is enough to buy another one.

    "I can get you a handgun in five days. If you want an automatic weapon like a AK47 (Kalashnikov assault rifle) it will take a little longer and cost twice as much. How many do you want?"

    Faisal, not his real name, is linked to a feared Sydney crime gang that has been caught up in a deadly feud with a rival gang, which has allegedly left at least four people dead and numerous others shot in the legs - a classic underworld warning tactic known as "kneecapping".

    It is the same criminal gang that is alleged to have bought seven rocket launchers stolen from the army and then allegedly onsold five of them to Sydney terror suspect Mohammad Elomar.

    Allegations have been made about how the seven rocket launchers - which can penetrate concrete and obliterate vehicles - fell into the hands of Sydney's underworld and ultimately an alleged terror cell.

    An insight into the murky world of arms dealing in Sydney came last week when alleged dealer Taha Abdulrahman, 28, appeared in court charged with arranging the sale of the rocket launchers to gang leader Adnan Darwiche, who is now in jail.

    Documents tendered to the court state for the first time the alleged interconnections between suspected terror cells and the criminal underworld - including how Sydney man Mohammed Touma was an alleged associate of Darwiche, while his brother Mazen Touma was an alleged member of the terror cell along with Elomar.

    I arranged to speak to Faisal in a house in Sydney's western suburbs, to talk about the hundreds of shooting incidents that have rocked Sydney in the past few years and to gauge the availability of guns and weaponry on the streets.

    He is unequivocal about the ease with which firearms can be purchased. Get the cash and it's a just a matter of days while the underworld connections receive the guns from their suppliers.

    "It is a matter of ordering what you want and then waiting," Faisal says.

    Police statistics appear to bear this out. Last year, there were 3500 illegal guns seized across NSW. Everything is on offer from pistols and the highly prized Glocks, which are easy to conceal and can unload 17 rounds in a matter of seconds, to Uzi machine guns and hand grenades. The anti-tank missiles stolen from the Australian army were bought for about $15,000 each.

    "Crime figures have access to weapons, but they are mainly second-hand and they get them by dealing among themselves," says Detective Superintendent Ken McKay, the commander of the Middle Eastern Organised Crime Squad. The MEOCS was set up to investigate crime in Sydney's southwest, the suburbs of which have been dubbed Australia's deadliest because of the spate of drive-by shootings and murders.

    Its predecessor, Taskforce Gain, had made more than 1300 arrests, including 12 for murder and attempted murder and 178 for firearms offences. Many of the offences were committed in Lakemba, Greenacre, Condell Park, Punchbowl and Auburn, the suburbs that stretch around the Arab heartland of Sydney. It is in these so-called badlands that the suspected terror cell allegedly bought five rocket launchers from Darwiche.

    Michael Kennedy, a former NSW police officer turned academic specialising in Middle Eastern crime gangs, says terrorism and organised crime have overlapped around the world, particularly with the Irish Republican Army and the Palestine Liberation Organisation.

    "But most of the time the overlap relates to entrepreneurial activity by terrorist groups and organised crime networks. The gangsters to make money and the terrorist groups to raise funds," Kennedy says.

    Police have recovered only one of the rocket launchers. The others allegedly bought by Elomar, who police say joked he was going to blow up NSW Parliament or Lucas Heights, have not been located.

    Police have been searching forest and bushland around Sydney to locate the weapons as well as a stash of firearms the group is alleged to have obtained.

    NSW police began warning about rising violence and the use of increased firepower by criminal gangs as far back as the mid-1980s. By the '90s, the problem was obvious with the growing gang violence involving notorious gangster Danny Karam, who was murdered in 1998 and whose associates have gone on to become members of the Darwiche gang and terrorism suspects.

    Kennedy says those suspected of involvement in terrorism "had simply decided they don't want to be criminals, they want to be zealots".

    In 1999, the then NSW commander of crime agencies, Clive Small, established a firearms trafficking unit to identify the source of the firearms, dealers, supply routes and use. It was the first of its type in Australia, resulting in more than 235 people being arrested and charged with 1100 gun-related offences. Police have also seized 1500 illegal handguns and 3400 longarms (rifles, semi-automatics and machine guns) as well as hand grenades and explosives.

    The commander of the NSW Firearms and Regulated Industry Crime Squad, Detective Superintendent John Kerlatec, says gun seizures are down because there "is a shrinking market".

    Kerlatec says most guns seized were second-hand and were obtained mainly by theft and illegal diversion rather than being imported illegally.

    The police are now using a system known as Integrated Ballistics Identification System to match the guns to crimes and often find that a firearm used in one shooting will turn up at another, sometimes involving a rival group.

    Even though serial numbers on the weapons might be removed, police ballistics tests can link the weapon to a shooting crime.

    A Sydney underworld gang member who has "rolled" told police they continuously bought and sold pistols and machine guns. His statement reveals how gang members bought pistols, including 9mm Glocks and SKS semi-automatic rifles, and kept them in a number of safe houses around the city.

    When they wanted to dispose of a hot weapon they would either melt it down or sell it interstate.

    As part of a crackdown on guns, the NSW police spent 2003-04 inspecting all licensed gun owners and where they kept their weapons. In NSW, there are 135,000 licensed gun users and 600,000 registered guns. Kerlatec says tighter security has cut theft almost in half.

    As armed guards are known targets, stricter controls led to a 50 per cent reduction in the number of guards carrying firearms.

    Investigations by the Australian Crime Commission, the nation's peak law enforcement agency, have also resulted in 1300 guns being seized or quarantined in the 2005-06 year. The ACC used its coercive powers to target firearms brokers, suppliers and dealers. But the ACC's key finding was that Australia needed a sustained and nationally co-ordinated effort targeting the supply of the firearms black market and its brokers.

    In the year to September 2006, there were 23 shooting murders in Sydney, and 31 attempted shooting murders according to the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research. In the same period there were 36 other shootings. And Kennedy says gangsters will remain "tooled up".

    "This is what organised crime does," Kennedy says. "There is no code of conduct. They don't go to uni and do ethics for gangsters ... People are doing what they have do to to survive. If we have a proliferation (of people being armed) it is because there are a lot of people who feel the need to have them."

    Faisal naturally blames the authorities for inflaming tensions between rival "crews" by telling each side that the other was responsible for shooting at them. He maintains he is a marked man and he can't appear on the streets of southwest Sydney without a gun for protection.

    As he conceals the pistol in his jeans, he says he will continue to carry it when he moves around the area. It is the only chance he has to protect himself against being "knocked".

    Natalie O'Brien is a senior writer at The Australian specialising in terrorism and crime.


    ----

    $5 G's for a Glock 10k for an AK :eek3: Time for a career change.
     
  2. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    me and hoss are going to start importing used glocks in australia. I figure we could sell them for 4k each :dunno:

    considering we will be getting them for ~500, I think that a 700% profit is reasonable :o
     
  3. slugsgomoo

    slugsgomoo New Member

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    didn't you see that "lord of war" movie? :eek4:

    You can make a ton of money, especially when you sell to both sides.

    Good thing gun control seems to be working for them. I mean, just the other day I bought a rocket launcher witht he gun show loophole. Glad to see that can't happen there! :hsugh:
     
  4. chakup

    chakup Guest

    shit $15k for a rocket, we get to pay that here for a real HK. :(
     
  5. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I figure I can make over $100k with the contents of my safe.
    we need a middle man on the Aus side.
     
  6. no7fish

    no7fish New Member

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    Wait, you mean it's not someone else's fault?? Like it's not the fault of the legal gun owners?!? SURELY someone ELSE is at fault....
     
  7. Small Block LSX

    Small Block LSX BMW | N54 | LSX | Gun | PS3 | Parent | Night CREW

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    I'm in. Then, we can use the thugs to help us take over Sealand. :bowdown:
     
  8. vettefan52

    vettefan52 Guest

    fuck, id sell my ak and glock for 5k each. they can have them.
     
  9. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I was thinking more like Fiji or Bora Bora. :eek3:
     
  10. Small Block LSX

    Small Block LSX BMW | N54 | LSX | Gun | PS3 | Parent | Night CREW

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    Honestly,.. I wouldn't mind mind being in an illegal arms trade. I wouldn't lose any sleep at night. :bigthumb:
     
  11. itchiban

    itchiban New Member

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    I was reading the article and all I could think to myself is "Would I own an illegal gun if there was an all-out ban on firearms in the US?" If it was an auto felony and minimum jail time, I'd have to consider it for a while. But if the fines were low and it just meant confiscation if I was caught, I might consider it. Plus 5k for a Glock is pretty steep lol.
     
  12. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    :werd: Honestly, I would love to sell guns to third world nations all over the earth. I would probably sleep better at night then I do now. Partly because I could get a nicer bed, but also because I figure I am just spreading one of the freedoms that makes america great.
     
  13. DaJMan

    DaJMan When i was young, i dreamed of being a baseball

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    :wavey: lol
     
  14. PanzerAce

    PanzerAce Active Member

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    we will cut you a deal, Glocks for personal use for you will only be $2k :o
     
  15. T0nyGTSt

    T0nyGTSt New Member

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    if you want to legally get a glock 17 they start at something like AU$700

    have to jump thru a lot of hoops though
     
  16. 007

    007 Riden, sliden, whipin and dippin, my chrome strips

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    its a felony for me to own a gun.
     
  17. vettefan52

    vettefan52 Guest

    because you are already a convicted felon or....
     
  18. itchiban

    itchiban New Member

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    Sorry to hear that, but losing rights from personal actions and having them stripped for no reason are two different things. In the end both scenarios equate to not being able to arm yourself, which I don't think I could do without.

    Edit: sorry, I'm assuming you're in the US and you lost your right to bear arms...
     
  19. Most aussies are brainwashed on this issue. They think the lebs and bikies go to the gun shop and fill out all the forms and legally acquire them.

    u can get pistol after a 6 month trial with the gun club and waiting 28 days after that. So probably 9 months i guess.

    obviously criminals wouldnt be stupid enough to register their weapons and have their picture stored on their licence probably on a database somewhere.
     
  20. no7fish

    no7fish New Member

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    To me the biggest deterrent against committing a felony is the fact that I would lose the right to own a gun, so if that in itself were a felony, who cares??
     
  21. T0nyGTSt

    T0nyGTSt New Member

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    i think the governments all around the world want to perpetuate the myth that legally sold guns *somehow* wind up in the hands of criminals

    it's an unacceptable risk for people to have guns at home - either to be used against a family member accidently or in a domestic dispute or even in a home defence

    i would like to see what would happen if a home owner used a legally owned pistol is a home invasion in AU

    the fact that someone has a gun in their home is another firearm potentially in the hands of the criminal

    guns can be used in massacres - we cannot trust that every person who wants to own a firearm will not potentially use it in a massacre some time in the future (or perhaps use them against the government)

    all these combined risks is enough to make legislators jump (and banning them makes these people sleep at night)

    you can see parts of America are not immune from these concerns

    john howard is not far off from tony blair

    i really have no respect for someone who has openly said (paraphrasing) "the United States has many wonderful attributes worth emulating - however we do not want to emulate their slavish devotion to the gun - GUNS ARE EVIL!!!111one" (my emphasis)

    if someone has an agenda like that well there is no hope is there?

    certain states in the US are inexorably going down this path
     
  22. Small Block LSX

    Small Block LSX BMW | N54 | LSX | Gun | PS3 | Parent | Night CREW

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    So, do we just send them UPS or something? :o Do they scan the packages? :ugh:

    Wait a second, you FBI? :hsd:
     
  23. Aequitas

    Aequitas If it keeps on raining, levee's going to break.

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    You know, it's a good thing people don't steal computers and use them for cyber terrorism. They might try to take those away too.
     
  24. twistid

    twistid Banged By Super Models Moderator

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    The claims of Sealand, a former military platform off the coast of Sussex, to nationhood are complete nonsense, a leading international and maritime law expert says. Piratebay, the Swedish file-sharing links site, says it is in negotiations to buy the platform.

    The Spanish estate agent acting for the self-proclaimed nation has also declared that Piratebay may not be allowed to buy it because it has pledged not to allow a sale that would damage the interests of or act against the UK.


    Piratebay is the focus of a burgeoning political movement in Sweden. The server farm hosting the site was raided last year ,causing popular outcry in a country where file sharing is significantly more socially acceptable than in other European nations. The site provides links to material that is often downloadable without a licence or permission.

    Piratebay now wants to find a location where it can set itself up as a nation and avoid copyright laws, and says it has started negotiations with the family that has long claimed Sealand as a sovereign nation.

    But Professor Robin Churchill, a lecturer in constitutional and international law at Dundee University, says that Sealand's 1967 claim to sovereignty is absurd. "It is within 12 miles of the coast of Britain and in 1987 the UK extended its territorial waters to 12 miles. That means that UK law applies, including the law of copyright, which could be extended to Sealand without any legal problems whatsoever," he said.

    The man behind Sealand, former major in the British army Paddy Roy Bates, has long claimed that his 1967 declaration of sovereignty predates that extension, and therefore supersedes it.

    "That is complete nonsense," said Churchill. "For it to be a state a place needs to have a proper stable population, a functioning government and needs to be recognised by other states and no existing other state recognises Sealand."

    "Like all island countries, the Principality has actively sought inward investment," said a Sealand statement announcing its sale. "We have now secured the services of a Spanish property broker who will act on our behalf to seek significant inward investment here in the Principality by way of either purchase or long-term lease."

    The Spanish estate agent acting for Sealand in the sale says that it cannot be sold as such because its occupiers claim that it is a principality. The transfer fee, though, is set at £504,000.

    The team behind Piratebay has expressed its interest. "We want to buy Sealand. Donate money and you will become a citizen," said a statement on Buysealand.com, a Piratebay website. "The Government of Sealand has initiated negotiation. Tomorrow, the ACFI [Piratebay] and Government of Sealand will sit down to discuss the future of the micronation."

    Piratebay has asked for donations to fund its purchase, but that money could be wasted if Churchill's view of the structure's legal status is correct. "There is nothing in international law to stop the UK enforcing its law there," he said.

    The estate agent, InmoNaranja, has said that Piratebay may not be allowed to buy Sealand. "We might not be able to sell to them, since one of the conditions imposed by the actual occupants of Sealand is that none of the activities to be carried out on Sealand should be an action against the UK, and potentially this group does not comply with this condition," said a statement from InmoNaranja.

    "The final decision lies with the current representatives of Sealand at the time of seeing the purchaser's proposal."

    Bates has always claimed that a 1968 English court judgment which said that it had no jurisdiction over the ex-anti aircraft installation validated its claims for legitimacy and international recognition. He also argues that contact with Sealand made by a German diplomat over the holding of a German national on the installation constituted diplomatic recognition of its nation status. Legal experts, though, have argued that those incidents are unlikely to be enough to justify the declaration of nationhood which Bates and his family claim.

    Piratebay has said that if it fails to buy Sealand it will buy a very small island instead and attempt to assert nationhood there. It says prices for islands start at around $50,000
     
  25. Gimik

    Gimik New Member

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    what is it with countries not wanting anyone else to be a country? It's an island in the middle of freakin nowhere.
     

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