Switching from business to residential cable service

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by Smork, Apr 25, 2010.

  1. Smork

    Smork Active Member

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    We currently have TimeWarner Business. It's great. Only issue is, the price is about 70+ a month for 10down / 1up. It's amazing, we have never had any downtime. We have a 24/7 tech support number, and takes 16-24 hours for any tech support to come to our house to fix any of our issues.

    For residential, they have the "15down / 1up" they claim to have, and with their "Turbo" package it can go up to 28down. Price is around 46/mo.

    Only issue is that we can not keep our 5 extra IPs. I Love having our 5 IPs, but is it really worth the $30 extra a month? We originally had residential with 5 IPs for $4.99/mo, but they took that away. :hs:

    We have the modem in my room, and that goes through the wall to the router in the room across the house. Reason we have the router in the other room is because everyone except me uses wifi, and wifi from this room does not reach the rest of the house. I just like being out-side of the router. Or we could just put the modem into the other room, but the wire we use is extremely long. At what length does the signal die down? It's about a 100ft cable.

    Would it be worth it just to keep the business line to keep the better options? Or get residential and perhaps get better speeds, or get screwed and pay less for a shittier line? We could always just place the router next to the modem in my room, and get a wireless access point to boost signal.


    What is your opinion on the situation?
     
  2. 5Gen_Prelude

    5Gen_Prelude There might not be an "I" in the word "Team", but

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    Run the 100ft of cable
     
  3. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

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    Cat 5 UTP has a maximum total length of 1000 feet. You have plenty of room left for that cable.

    I am not quite understanding the purpose of 5 IP's. Make me understand.

    You said that you liked being 'outside of the router'. What exactly do you mean by this?

    I mean, if you think you are getting a speed boost (and you may be) you can always take the Cat5 cable from the modem to a switch and from the switch you can run a piece of Cat5 to your stuff. From another port on this switch you run a piece of cat 5 to the router for everyone else.
     
  4. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Business internet is always better than residential internet. Residential internet can only sustain its rated speed for short bursts, and residential traffic gets lower priority once it reaches the ISP.

    Stilgar, the point of 5 IPs is you can expose 5 services to the internet for people to access remotely, whether they be websites or FTP servers or Remote Desktops, or whatever.

    So let me make sure I understand the topology here: the cable comes into the house, connects to the modem, then two network cables come out of the modem, one going to your computer and the other going to the wireless router across the house. Is that right? Because if it is, then the loss in speed is because YOU HAVE TWO ROUTERS. If the modem didn't have a router built-in, there would only be space for one network cable coming out of it.

    Shut off the router inside your modem (you may need to call the cable company for help to get this done), put the modem and the wireless router in the same room, and run a cable from the router to your computer. Done.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2010
  5. Smork

    Smork Active Member

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    Gotcha. I'll stay with business then.

    The current system is

    Line into house to
    > Modem
    > Cat5 from modem to a switch
    > 1 cable from switch to my computer.

    -2nd line from switch
    > Wall connector to other side of the house that leads to a apple airport extreme (the router in my room does not give good wireless signal to the rest of the house)
    > Another cat5 goes into Ooma (a voip system)
    > apple supplies wireless to the rest of the house.


    I have never had good luck with routers and my computer. Perhaps it was just that the routers we've had previous to the apple have been really quite old.

    I haven't tried setting the whole system to being within the router. I've always had better download speeds/upload speeds, game connections, ftp speeds, and easier to send files via IRC/AIM/any other p2p connections.

    From my understanding, and what I just recently read, is that the "Turbo boost" is only for a short duration while downloading. Not during the general use of your connection. That is not what they have really advertised to me while talking to their tech support. And I do see that the tech support is far superior with a business line. My dad thinks it's not worth it since we don't have "problems". but that is most likely because of the quality of service we do have.

    So far it seems that it isn't worth the upgrade. Talked to my friend who is down the street, uses the same ISP, but residential with their 15/1 w/ turbo. His download speeds are 1.2mbps, where mine are 1.1mbps, and his upload is pretty bad compared to mine from what he is saying.

    Any one have the apple airport extreme? Is it a decent router? Some reviews I have seen are that it is lacking quite a lot of features that other routers such as the linksys WRT or open source dd-wrt routers can have.
     
  6. Smork

    Smork Active Member

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    This is the setup that is currently in my house. The issue is, if I switch to residential, I would not be able to do this due to the lack of multiple IP addresses.

    One reason for all of the IPs, is that we always have people here who take up an IP for their computer since they would all hook upstairs. Not close to the router. They would all hook up into my switch, which they would be able to access the internet because they get an IP not assigned by the router.
     
  7. dorkultra

    dorkultra OT's resident crohns dude OT Supporter

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    business and residential internet are not that much different. i work for a cable isp, we put business accounts on different cards on the cmts. this allows for more consistant throughput
    also, the turbo boost is really only for a short period of time, usually just at the start of the download.
    our cards have a max of 40mbps, they each have about 10-50 clients on. residential services can get hit hard when peak time rolls around and everyone decides to fire up netflix etc
    they've been actively splitting nodes and they dropped some major coin on a new cmts

    however, we still do not guarantee any speeds. you need to sign up for fiber or t1 options to get an SLA.

    we get a technician to business clients within 3 hours. residential clients are within 24 hours, usually same day

    i really think you need to run some more ethernet. you shouldn't require 5 ip addresses for what your doing. you're better off having your switch hook into the router, people plug into the switch. router assigns dhcp through the switch
     
  8. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    There still must be a router inside your modem, because a modem without a router inside it won't know what to do with multiple lines-in, whether they're connected directly or through a switch. That's fine, but keep in mind that the routers bundled inside modems are usually pretty junky. In general I prefer to buy all my own equipment, from the modem to the network cards, and everything in between, so I know whether they're good quality or not. Netgear ProSafe makes good "starter business grade" equipment; their boxes in my server room have been running for several years now without a single reboot.

    It really should go modem => separate router => everything else, including you and the Apple Airport.

    Dorkultra, my experience thus far has been that data coming in on a "business" line, while it may be electronically identical to residential traffic, is given a higher QoS priority than the residential traffic, because businesses have to move a lot more data and they can afford to pay for the privilege of cutting in line.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2010
  9. 5Gen_Prelude

    5Gen_Prelude There might not be an "I" in the word "Team", but

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    No. You would need 5 IP addresses if you wanted to expose 5 of the SAME services to the internet and you didn't want to mess around with port forwarding or Host Header Names.

    My connection goes:

    Modem->Switch->Two Routers

    My ISP allows two IPs and both routers have their benefits, so I use both. I also join both routers together on the LAN side. Both were free, otherwise I'd reduce it down to one.
     
  10. Smork

    Smork Active Member

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    I could drop the IPs, but that would only be about $5 from what I remember. I should just try Modem > Router > Switch/computers.

    Why get a new router? What benefits would I gain from having my own modem? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get faster speeds. it's what ever speeds they assign me. Or is it the modem from another company has a better processing for information to each IP?

    I don't get IPs for free. Kinda wish I did, then I'd do the same thing. Just keep a router here for myself and anyone else who comes over without wireless.
     
  11. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

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    That isn't how it works.

    You do not need 5 IP's. You don't need 2 IP's. Technically, you don't need one reserved IP. The one that the cable company leases you will fulfill your needs just fine.

    I am thinking and thinking about the putting a switch between the router and the modem thing.
    The one thing I will tell you without doubt is that you have no need for that. If you have seen some improvement in speed or some such after doing that then more power to you. But there is no reason for it.

    Now about those 5 IP addresses.

    There are PUBLIC and PRIVATE IP addresses.

    The reason for private IP addresses is so you can have as many devices behind the modem as you need. Private IP addresses are not seen by other devices past the modem.
    A Public IP address on the other hand is a singular entity on the Internet.

    One of the functions of the router is to keep a routing table. That is a table of MAC addresses of all the items that are on the inside of the LAN. When a packet gets moved from the LAN to the WAN the router scrubs the MAC address from the packet (well, the MAC address gets dropped).

    If you were paying extra money for 5 IP addresses because you thought that your Mother couldn't get on the net because you were downloading porn then you thought wrong.
     
  12. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

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    I am trying to figure out if a modem keeps a routing table.

    I am taking my NET+ test in two weeks. I should know this.

    It is bugging me so much at the second that I am about to steal the switch from upstairs, plug it into my modem and look for the routing table.

    See, this is bugging the shit out of me. The more I think about it the more I go in circles.
    The switch is also gonna keep a table. It keeps a table of mac addresses and ports.
    Therefore the switch knows that the laptop is plugged into port 1 and the router into port 2.

    So the switch should make it possible to do this.

    But I keep coming back to, 'Why would you want to?'. If you are seeing a speed boost then.... help me out. Where did you see the speed boost. I want a fucking explanation.
    All roads point to 'if you are getting a speed boost then it is something that can be fixed.'.
     
  13. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

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    I am saying that the IP's are completly and utterly useless. This isn't a matter of they are only $5. This is a matter of you are spending $5 for something useless to you and if you were doing it correctly to begin with you wouldn't need it.
     
  14. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

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    This is absolutely not correct.
    Also, you don't need two routers.

    Multiple switches sure. But two routers? Not for a house.

    You could try a new router. Odds are that you won't see too much of a difference on the wired side of it. 10/100/1000 CAT5 is a pretty stable medium. I don't that a new router is going to route packets (er... um.... frames at that point I think...) any faster then your old one. Well, with the possible exception that there might be something wrong with the old one.

    But on the wireless side you may very well see a performance increase. There are new N chips coming out all the time. One router might be able to reach a room that another cannot.

    Understand this though - if you are picturing placeing one router downstairs next to the modem and then another router upstairs to create a network upstairs it will not work. You need a wireless bridge to do that. These things, they are very specific in what they do.
     
  15. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

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    Listen to Dork and Deusex, those guys know what they are talking about.
     
  16. Smork

    Smork Active Member

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    By Private IP addresses you are talking about the modem being used as a router and assigning IP addresses as more computer/devices sign on correct? And the usual 192.168.x.x?

    When I have others connect, they are always getting 74.62.xx.xx which I am assuming is a "PUBLIC" IP, since they are not getting the private IP addresses that are associated with a router.

    Is that correct?
     
  17. Smork

    Smork Active Member

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    I was reading somewhere, that you could actually turn off the routing features of a router, and just make it a switch? Is that incorrect?
     
  18. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

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    Some routers, not all of them. It must be a feature. Besides, switches are cheap enough.
     
  19. Smork

    Smork Active Member

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    What is your advice on the Business cable vs Residential. Forget about the 5 IPs, I'll see how much that is, and if they have a business package w/o that.

    And what about a wireless access point? Are those the same as Wireless bridges? Aren't those to "Boost Signal" where wireless should be available?
     
  20. Smork

    Smork Active Member

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    gotcha. just curious. Thanks.
     
  21. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

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    Bingo. It gets better. Your private IP addresses is your thing and has nothing to do with the cable company at all. You can set them up and use as many of them as you want. Once data hits the WAN it is cleaned of that information anyhow.

    This is what I meant by saying purchasing IP addresses from the cable company was useless. They were selling you PUBLIC IP addresses. They cannot sell you private because they have no control over your use of a private IP address.
    Private IP addressing can be very useful to you.

    On my network at home I had a problem at one point with one of my game boxes coming online and useing an old private IP address that was currently being used by one of the PC's. This shouldn't happen, the router functions as a DHCP server and should keep this from happening. But it was.
    The solution?

    I assaigned my 3 PC's and 3 gaming boxes private IP addresses. I told the router that these MAC addresses where to be given these reserved IP addresses, anything else the router could assaign as it saw fit.

    Problem solved.
    These are all PRIVATE IP addresses. To you my Xbox and my Laptop will all have the same PUBLIC IP address. But on my LAN they have different PRIVATE addresses.
     
  22. Smork

    Smork Active Member

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    Yeah. I completely understand your statements on Private and Public IPs.

    We still the IPs just because we switched to business during the time we did not have a good router, and modems and routers were even farther from eachother. I will see what we can do about either getting rid of them, or just switching plans.


    But is it worth the quality of service? Time Warner out here is pretty god awful when it comes to sending out a technician. And is there any way test it? I guess I could call them and ask if it were possible to test "residential", and then switch back to business if it sucks.

    The "Turbo" boost speed seems really stupid, and not worth the price. It just runs for the 5-10 seconds, and then cuts back. Why is this? I mean the download is maybe a minute shorter? Or am I wrong on this?
     
  23. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

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    An access point and a bridge are two different things. That being said, you might be able to find access points that can function as bridges (just as you can find routers that can be turned into switches).

    The difference between an access point and a bridge is this:

    On one side of an AP is a piece of ethernet cable that connects to either a switch or a router. When you turn on your wireless laptop or your PSP or whatever it talks to the AP and gets on the network from there.

    A bridge is the opposite creature. The bridge has a piece of ethernet cable that can go to either a switch or a device like an xbox or a computer. But the bridge will pick up the wireless network from a router somewhere and create a 'bridge' between the two wireless devices. Try as you might with your laptop or PSP you cannot get on the LAN wirelessly by accessing the bridge.

    At my house I have two separate networks. One upstairs and one downstairs. Rather then run a piece of cable up the heating ducts I purchased a wireless bridge. Upstairs that bridge plugs into a switch and that switch has all my devices behind that.
    I am using N+ on both the router and the Bridge. For all practical purposes the traffic is as fast upstairs as it is downstairs.

    When I turn on my laptop wirelessly it will always access the router and never the bridge.
     
  24. Stilgar1973

    Stilgar1973 New Member

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    Ask Deus and Dork about if it is worth it for QOS. My gut says it isn't. That you have the opportunity to save a bit of money and spend that money somewhere else.

    But in the end these things are always based on someones needs. Your needs are different then mine.

    Hell, I am running my network behind a slow as ass DSL connection. You would be miserable with my speeds. But for my needs I am happy.
     
  25. Smork

    Smork Active Member

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    Where you guys at? :x:
     

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