GUN Something I've always wondered: forensics

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by konrad109, Aug 8, 2008.

  1. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    You know when they do ballistics testing on a gun and somehow determine a bullet was fired from one specific gun and not another? How do they know it had to have come from that gun and not the one with a serial number 1 higher or lower? Aren't hundreds or thousands of barrels bored out by the exact same machine and would be pretty much the same?

    I would think since they rely on one person looking at two bullet or bullet fragments and not some computer aided matching, wouldn't it be open for a lot of human error as well? How can there be such a huge difference between two barrels bored out minutes apart by the same machine?
     
  2. Finest

    Finest OG #93

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    Because the same bullet can not be fired out of two different barrels, at the same time.

    :eek3:

    (think about that and you'll understand how they know)
     
  3. kf4zht

    kf4zht New Member

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    I have always wondered (theoretically) if you took a gun used in a crime and immediately afterword went and shot a bunch with it (2k rounds) if it would change the barrel enough to not have a match.

    Or if you shot it really dirty and then cleaned it spotless afterword.

    It seems there are alot of possible ways to mess up the idea of matching bullets, I wonder how much research has been done into ways to tell.
     
  4. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    once we have microprinting on the bullet and casing we will be able to instantly track all criminals and know who did the crime :cool:
     
  5. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    all you would have to do is go to a gun show, buy, with cash an extra barrel and firing pin

    toss them in a river after you shoot someone and good luck "matching" them
     
  6. Hooligan

    Hooligan New Member

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    Or melt them down and turn them into a creepy but perfectly legal statue of the person you just shot. :eek5:
     
  7. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

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    shoot them with an ice bullet
     
  8. Hooligan

    Hooligan New Member

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    I saw some wooden 7.62x39 on ammoman awhile back.
     
  9. mikeflys1

    mikeflys1 New Member

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    Awesome...time to start stealing brass from the range.
     
  10. Jinkle

    Jinkle Habs/Vikings > *

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    Hopefully they'll put RFID chips in all bullets and casings soon :x:
     
  11. phrozenlikwid

    phrozenlikwid New Member

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  12. TigreTek

    TigreTek omega member OT Supporter

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    better question. how do you match a shotgun?
     
  13. Hooligan

    Hooligan New Member

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    slug, sure.

    bbs? no wai
     
  14. konrad109

    konrad109 New Member

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    Isnt the slug rifled instead of the barrel? I cant imagine how they could identify any smooth bore gun.
     
  15. NEp8ntballer

    NEp8ntballer New Member

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    saboted slug through an unrifled barrel...
     
  16. mattsb2000

    mattsb2000 OT Supporter

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    In for $6/rd bullets

    Fuck it add gps to them too
     
  17. Hooligan

    Hooligan New Member

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    Hey I dunno man, I was just thinking that there might be a way with a solid object. I'm no CSI.
     
  18. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    The ballistic fingerprinting stuff is not that accurate. Works best of course if the gun is recovered from the prime suspect and is tested. The weapon and the bullets are the same caliber, main suspect happened to have same exact brand of ammo in the gun minus the few round recovered in the victim and the bullet striations match.

    As the barrel gets shot things will change slightly, same with the barrel being cleaned. Heck you could use a rat tail file to run a few patches through the barrel and that would really throw things off.

    What it comes down to is the ballistic forensics mostly works when you use it in conjunction to a lot of other kinds of evidence. That and criminals are mostly stupid.

    The fired case thing is bogus too. First companies like glock test fire two rounds. Nothing is ever recorded, heck they send the two rounds with the gun. It serves several purposes the most important is they function fired the gun. The least important is that some dip shit that doesn't know anything about guns but thinks he's qualified to write gun laws thinks this will help catch criminals. As gun people we can come up with 100 reasons why it would not work.

    Same goes with the micro stamping nonsense. Do not have the technology, would not work if we did. Makes the politicians look like they are doing something about crime to noob voters. Makes it harder and more expensive to manufacturer guns which is the number one thing to hurt our cause.

    My homicide detective buddy wrote this amazing letter to the Governor. Basically it states he is a homicide detective and he knows what the fuck he's talking about. Micro stamping would not work, it's a joke. If you want to do something that would catch criminals then put more money into DNA evidence tools. DNA evidence puts bad guys puts bad guys behind bars.

    It really was a great letter, really moved me. I will have to get him to give me a digital copy for you guys to read.
     
  19. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    Quoted from another forum where my Homiced detective buddy talks about micro stamping. Not as good as his letter but you get the point.


    AB1471, if passed, applies only to new semi-automatic handguns for sale/purchase in California that makes the CA DOJ Firearms Roster. AB1471 simply requires semi-auto handgun manufacturers who intend to sell one of their models in CA to incorporate microstamping technology and would be required on all new models of semiautomatic handguns sold in California after 2010. Long arms, revolvers, and the semi-auto pistols sitting in your safes will not fall under AB1471.

    [commentary] The author, Assemblymember Mike Feuer, although his intentions are good, is misguided in what this technology can do to help law enforcement investigate gun crimes and those that use such firearms to commit crimes. It's incredible how police department command staff persons and politicians believe they actually have an answer for helping detectives solve crimes. All this from people who have barely spent any time actually investigating crimes. They don't have a clue, and yet they believe they are actually knowledgeable enough to be taken seriously.

    The technology that microstamping is supposed to provide already exists (since 1991) and is incredibly accurate, depending on the capabilities and skills of the technician at the helm of this process.

    Yes, it could be helpful to know that the driveby that just occurred at 2:30 in the morning, with zero witnesses, had enough evidence left behind to show that a semi-auto Beretta 92F pistol was stolen from a Riverside residence back in August 2006 by an unknown burglar. Maybe.

    Unfortunately, the nature of stolen firearms is that they exchange hands (owners) on the street very frequently within a 60 day period, on average. That would be very helpful in wasting the next 24 hours of my work week as I track down a perpetual wild goose chase. That's really productive. I have a dozen other examples, and we're no where near to identifying the person that actually fired that handgun. How about spending all that time, money, and effort on extending research into PCR and STR DNA technology? That might be a good idea... but no one's asked me.
     
  20. Soybomb

    Soybomb New Member

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    I've never seen any evidence to support that. Almost all makers will include fired brass casing to comply with states that have dumb laws like (i believe) maryland that states such things must be collected. As far as the gun companies keeping such databases...I'll believe it when I see proof past the claims of a y2k survivalist kook.

    Even worse is when some legislation like recently done for coded ammunition is written and provided to legislators by the company that holds the property rights to the technology that would make such a law possible. Talk about writing your own check.
     
  21. SNDP

    SNDP New Member

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    Anyone ever been shot with salt-shot? I have... Almost as good as your ice bullet...
     
  22. SNDP

    SNDP New Member

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    I like the way your mind works. Bent, like mine.
     
  23. Sailor Jerry

    Sailor Jerry OT Supporter

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  24. EatShoots&Leaves

    EatShoots&Leaves New Member

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    I remember seeing on some crime show where they matched the imprint of the firing pin left on the shotgun shell.
     
  25. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    Yeah I saw some TV show where they could like travel back in time and arrest people before they did the crime.

    "Yar your under arrest for contracting the murder of a dozen people"
    "Wat? Bullshit I was only going to do this if I won the lottery. This ain't right!"
     

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