So why is "clean bulking" better than "dirty bulking"?

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by MyLittlePwny, Feb 18, 2005.

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  1. MyLittlePwny

    MyLittlePwny OT Supporter

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    Calories are calories right? Obviously when dirty bulking you still eat some high quality foods like oatmeal and tuna and get sufficient protein, so what is necessarily better about sticking to those types of foods exclusively as opposed to eating pizza or hamburgers or fries during the day too. I hear people say when you clean bulk you have less cutting to do later - why is this? If you are taking in the same number of calories each day from either a clean or dirty bulk why would you gain more fat from the latter? Is there something about the calories in "clean" foods that don't get stored as fat as easily?? :dunno:
     
  2. cavefish

    cavefish You ain't a crook son, you just a shook one

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    Well tell me whats better for you: Eating chicken breasts, tuna, etc all day or throwing down fried chicken, pizzas, and mountain dew?

    Clean bulking tends to minimize your fat gain, its just not as fun.
     
  3. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    Even though they might help you reach your caloric goals, there are still some things that you should try to avoid putting a lot of in your system, ie. saturated/trans fat.
     
  4. MyLittlePwny

    MyLittlePwny OT Supporter

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    Ya I mean, I understand that common sense dictates eating healthy foods is better for you nutritionally then eating pizza and whatnot, but is there any actual reason that dirty bulking gets you more fat other than "it just sounds liek it should". As Dragon said, is it basically the transfat difference?
     
  5. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

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    cause you end up eating more calories
     
  6. MyLittlePwny

    MyLittlePwny OT Supporter

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    :bigthumb: haha thats kinda what I'm getting at and wondering about. Other then the nutritional problem of having bad saturated fats in ur body, if you intake the same # cals from either clean bulking or dirty bulking it really shouldnt matter which one you choose in terms of fat gain over muscle gain.
     
  7. MyLittlePwny

    MyLittlePwny OT Supporter

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    Elaborate please, this is what Im confused about? Why do you say calories from "dirty foods" are more prone to increase your bodyfat then "clean food" calories are?
     
  8. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    Ok Mr Olympia, care to explain?
     
  9. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

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    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/articles/nutrition/cal_cal.php

     
  10. Alt+F4

    Alt+F4 official OT hockey stud

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    Interesting. Good topic.

    This is sort of what I was hearing from Christophers...nail your protein, keep your total cals in a predefined range, and what fills up the rest is negligible.
     
  11. Alt+F4

    Alt+F4 official OT hockey stud

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    OK, so I'm going back to eating white bread. THANKS OT F+N!!!
     
  12. MyLittlePwny

    MyLittlePwny OT Supporter

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    Awesome this thread answered exactly what I was wondering
     
  13. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    this coming from a man who a couple of months ago argued that a dog can consent to having sex from a human? :rofl:

    a calorie is a calorie, its the source of the calories is the important factor, to a degree.

    PS. Learn to link :uh:
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2005
  14. Leo95SE

    Leo95SE The OMINOUS one

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    dirty bulking sometimes doesnt take into effect long term health goals.
    we all think we are superhuman at 18yrs old, but bad habits stick with you.
     
  15. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    I had no problems understanding the point, but if some newb came along and read that, more than likely, they wouldn't know you were referring to the source of the calories being important.

    What the in dog arguement? Actually, I was the first one to call you out for being an ass by continuing to play devil's advocate in an annoying and pointless manner
     
  16. Zika

    Zika My avatar is still NOT me

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    There are other factores than just calories.

    What about insulin resistance? I'm sure cramming down 400grams of suagr a day over 400g of good low impact carbs won't make you insulin resistance...no because you're calories are at maitnence :ugh:.

    There are an number of health benefits of eating healthy foods, including you're improved heart system, respitorary system, improved immune system so unlikely to get colds and shit and improved metabolism making you're body able too proccess food and breakdown foods better.

    If some people are too fucking weak and fat too eat clean then they have the choice off risking a slowed metabolic rate, micronutrient deficiencies (I wonder what the Viatmin content some dirty food are?) plus loads of nutrition related health problems including diabetes, cardiovascular disease and insulin resistance . Those who eat clean don't run these risks, plus they look fucking healthier and I presume feel better.

    In the end it's you're choice, tbh. But they're are not the same and really, the only time you can say a calorie is a calorie is when you're talking about weight loss and weight gain, and NO ONE just wants to gain weight, they want to gain fucking muscle. You guy's are'nt stupid so why are you even suggesting that clean bulking and dirty bulking are the same? You know they're fucking not.
     
  17. Zika

    Zika My avatar is still NOT me

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    I do use the highest GI sugar I can get (dextrose) post workout because it is healthier, as it puts you're body into a normal protein synthesis quicker than any other carb source. But that is really the only time you're body does need an insulin spike.

    I am a fan of low carb dieting because it makes sense, carbs are the only things you're body does not need to have in you're diet to function. There are a host of benefits to eating carbs but as far as weight loss is concerned, carbs are the most healthiest macro-nutrient to cut (unless someone is eating like shit, then unhealthy fat sources should go first)

    I agree with you here, if there's no other option but an ecto wants to gain weight basdly then they can make the sacrifice. One meal won't hurt the long run, it's takes months or even years to start seeing the big omens such as diabetes.

    But as far as LBM is concerned, eating healthier will improve the LBM gained over fat gained irregardless of calories met, for the same reasons I posted before.

    Calories will decide weight loss and weight gain whereas the macro nutrient breakdown of the calories will decide whether this loss if gunno be LBM or not.

    The differences are likely to be slight though.
     
  18. Zika

    Zika My avatar is still NOT me

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    Read the n00b stickies plz
     
  19. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    wouldn't a high GI sugar, like dextrose be good just prior too/during workout to quickly replenish muscle glycogen lost during the workout?
     
  20. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    makes sense. now to my next question, will the carb's in oats replenish muscle glyogen as well as say dextrose, or go to replenish other glycogen stores, like fructose and the liver?
     
  21. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    thanks :bigthumb:

    I mainly worried about consistently spiking my insulin with a hi-GI good pre/post workout because diabetes runs in my family, and I want to try avoid/minimize doing things that might lead it to show up in me.


    ffa?
     
  22. Zika

    Zika My avatar is still NOT me

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    Come on, you're trying to argue with that statement. Why do we even eat high protein and limit are trans fat? I really cba pulling out studies to argue for this statement because you can stroll into any medical textbook or bodybuilding website and be slammed with the reason why!.


    And as far as post-workout I can't belive you're arguing against no insulin spike PWO then claiming carb sources don't matter in the other parts of the thread, but it's gunno take awhile to get sources to argue for this and it's quite off topic tbh. High-gi and sugars post workout is quite a heated debate, or so it seems, in the bodybuilding community.

    It's almost like you're trying to find reasons to argue against what is common sense.

    edit - Just a note, I agree that high-GI and low-GI don't really do anything other than keep your hunger at bay.
     
  23. cavefish

    cavefish You ain't a crook son, you just a shook one

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    Because "non healthy" foods like pizza and beer have a horrible protein:carb:fat ratio as opposed to eating cleanly.

    You may be getting tons of calories but its harder to get an ideal macronutrient intake while "dirty bulking" if you were trying to do that. Me personally I'd make sure I was getting at least 300g of protein and then eat whatever the fuck else I wanted after that because if I'm going on a crazy bulk I'm not going to care that much.

    The other approach would be to get all your calories from "clean" sources to more easily manage your carb and fat intake.
     
  24. Drewski

    Drewski New Member

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    I believe what he's argueing is that as long as you get sufficient protein (1-1.5g/kg) of protein, the body will use the calories it needs and then store the rest as fat, regardless if they came from healthy or unhealthy sources.

    btw, irregardless isn't a word (sorry, one of my pet peeves)
     
  25. Zika

    Zika My avatar is still NOT me

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    That's true enough. If you're number 1 goal is muscle mass.

    But since I'm not, and never will be able to be, a competing bodybuilder and I live a pretty combfy lifestyle where I don't actually require the muscle or strength to horde away drug lords and 8ft black guys, I'm mainly in this for the health.

    On the flip side, it could be argued that if you dirty bulk to an extreme and gain alot of weight (most likely fat) even if it's fat it means you can pull higher numbers in the gym and thus become stronger. As no one can argue physics, more weight = more force.

    Calories are the main force in weight gain and weight loss. Macro-nutrient breakdown is the main force in fat gain, fat loss, muscle gain ect. This is the point I'm trying to make...but I'm being incredibly lazy and not backing up because I feel that you and most people on the board know that that is the case.
     
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