So we finally stripped my friends Grand Prix (56k, gore warning)

Discussion in 'OT Driven' started by NetChemica, Feb 10, 2005.

  1. NetChemica

    NetChemica OT Supporter

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    If you need to ask what part of the engine you are looking at or what is wrong with the picture, you are in the wrong thread.



    We hear lots of LOUD banging noises, couldn't figure out what the fuck was causing it. Pulled the motor up, and while repositioning it I saw the two HUGE holes on both sides. He has a bunch of mods in his car, but he ran more aggressive rockers without stronger springs :noes:.
     
  2. NeoPaladin

    NeoPaladin New Member

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    More aggressive rockers alone won't do it. He must have been off the charts when it came to KR. Tell me... what mods did he have? I'm willing to bet money that an aftermarket PCM was on that list, as well as a pulley about 2 sizes too small.

    That kind of damage is crazy. That's not just a chipped piston, that's serious uncontrolled detonation. Only way I could see that happening is running ultra-low octane on an aftermarket PCM with a really small pulley, or the knock sensors died (and so did the motor ;))

    BTW, 04 GP GTP owner. :)
     
  3. NetChemica

    NetChemica OT Supporter

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    Things I can think of right now:

    full exhaust
    too small of a pulley (IMO, he thinks its okay, but he doesn't know much)
    rockers
    tranny
    cai
    pcm
    180 degree tstat


    he was getting 11 degrees of knock when this started happening, prior to that he was reading about 2-3. When we tore the block apart, we saw pistons 1,3,5 all chipped to hell. He bought a new shortblock with a stage 2 cam, he then bought stock rockers and stronger valve springs. We pulled the heads and manifolds off the busted block, put it onto this one, and dropped the motor in. The first thing that happened when he turned it on was HUGE fuckin banging inside the motor. I don't know much about engine swaps, so he had a guy from his car club do everything. I just tore his old block apart.

    Now we are in the process of pulling out everything from the "new" block into the old one (keep in mind, the old one is the one with no holes). So far pistons 5 and 6 are fucked, so is the crank, and block (and gaskets, but thats nothing). We haven't gotten much further, nor have we inspected the currently dis-assembled parts.


    cliffs: engine #1 broke, bought short block, broke that, mixing and matching working parts to make another engine
     
  4. IslanderOffRoad

    IslanderOffRoad Do you even lift kit? OT Supporter

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    i thought 3800's were supposed to be bullett proof
     
  5. Possum Stomper

    Possum Stomper The Great Bird of the Galaxy

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    damn...broke all kinds of shit :eek3:
     
  6. NeoPaladin

    NeoPaladin New Member

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    Generally they are. But a consistent 11 degrees of KR will do bad things to just about any motor. I peak at about 5 degrees, and I'm running a pulley that's WAY too small for my mods. Need to get an AFC and tune, because I'm running really overly rich, which is causing a lot of it. Of course, 04's have weird PCM's.

    Sounds like your friend really doesn't know what he's doing. Buy him a Cavalier to play with so that he doesn't fuck up decent cars. :rofl:
     
  7. Supernoma

    Supernoma servus publicae OT Supporter

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    broke those connecting rods like fresh pretzles :eek3:
     
  8. NetChemica

    NetChemica OT Supporter

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    It's not really him, it's mostly his car club. He doesn't know much about engines, just what he reads on the forum, and even then they aren't specific enough for him to learn too much. I asked him what timing does and what rockers are, both of which were: "it's too hard to explain".

    He mostly goes by what people on the forum say he should buy, if you go on there and tell him to get 5lb springs and he saw enough posts about it, he would purchase them. Ofcourse now he has a general idea of the parts inside his car, so it would be quite hard to fool him.
     
  9. NeoPaladin

    NeoPaladin New Member

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    Hehehe... well, it's nice of you to help him out, anyway. It's insane... there's so many people out there that don't understand how one engine part relates to another, or even what they do. It's a complete system, people, not just a collection of parts. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

    BTW, not sure what board he's on, but he ought to check out ClubGP.com. That's basically the best place to go get GP info if he's looking. :)
     
  10. NetChemica

    NetChemica OT Supporter

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    That's the board actually. I'm not blaiming the board in the sense that they told him to do the wrong thing, by all means, they are most likely right. He just doesn't understand that not everyone has the same mods, so if someone told you to get a more aggressive cam, that might not apply to someone else. I think now he'll understand the fact that you have to mod your car reliability wise too.
     
  11. Fire Sauce

    Fire Sauce New Member

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    Wow. Just wow.


    "Some people are dumb... huh huh..." - Butthead
     
  12. syP

    syP OT Supporter

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    my mods were the following

    1.9 Rockers
    TOG Headers
    180* tstat
    Autolite 104 spark plugs
    DHP PCM
    Motor mounts
    Intake
    3" Downpipe from headers
    U-Bend Removed
    2.5" Back to the Y
    Summit Super Turbo Mufflers
    3.2" Supercharger Pulley

    now that pulley isnt too small for sure. I had the car scanned 6 months prior and was gettin 0-.9 KR with the mods listed above.. EXCEPT Headers, I had a front ported manifold.

    I started getting insane KR readings in the summer, added headers, seems like it was worse then. I simply thought it was false Kr. To this day we still do not know what is the main cause of all that KR so suddenly.

    I DID buy this car used, and the previous owner had some wacky stuff done to it.. not to mention warping the "screw" inside the supercharger, so it was almost impossible to put on a new MPS. The pcm was tuned for 42.5# injectors when i clearly had stock ones. So now all said and done, the motor is being rebuilt and the car will be tuned... hopefully making some 12 second passes.

    * edit... a stage2 cam, Ported Throttle body, and 3.0-3.1" Pulley are going on the new motor , and race gas will be added at the track.. i will run 3.2" as a daily driver pully.

    But now I am realizing the lack of supportive mods that the previous owner did, so i added 105# valve springs, retainers, and upped my idl 100 rpms for the cam
     
  13. emilio

    emilio Guest

    maybe you shouldn't drive at redline moron.
     
  14. NetChemica

    NetChemica OT Supporter

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    :ugh: Maybe you should figure out what we are talking about.
     
  15. NeoPaladin

    NeoPaladin New Member

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    Hey syP, I've seen you over at ClubGP before. Sorry that your car blew up, man.

    Looking at your mod list, that 3.2" pulley is a little on the small side, but not overly so. I'm running a 3.3" on my '04 with similar mods, except for headers.

    Sounds like the previous owner didn't really know what he was doing. If the car was tuned for overly large injectors, plus if it was hot in the summer, I could easily see that causing a mean lean condition, and melting or detonating a piston. Actually, if the KR just all of a sudden got higher, it may have been that one of the pistons got chipped or cracked from a detonation burst before, and then it was only a matter of time.

    Best of luck on the rebuild. Also, make sure to pick up an AFC if you get a chance, because those are some of the best insurance that you can buy for your car.
     
  16. syP

    syP OT Supporter

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    last time i checked.. i shift at 5950rpms.... redline is 6000rpms... the only way this car will hit red line is if i max out 4th gear... which will be over 200mph. I am drag limited though. And i dont race it "in gear" thus i have never red lined it.


    I dont think that 3.2" is too small. Headers, Rockers, and free'd up exhaust kill ALOT of KR. The fact that I tried a 3.1" for one night and my KR stayed the same lead me to believe that there was another source for the KR. Granted i did not try race gas to eliminate it.. I think that it wasnt too small becuase I had virtually NO KR back in the spring time with only a front ported manifold, rockers, intake, plugs, exhaust, pcm... that is why something must have "broke" or mis-aligned.


    Screw the AFC... I got access to a DHP POWERTUNERS :) for a 1997 GTP. So it all works out. nahh, i will get a afc later on
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2005

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