WEB Sniper Rifle > Shot gun

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by rwdftw, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. rwdftw

    rwdftw Guest

    Disclaimer: This applies to everyone except for those who make adsense farming pages.

    I keep reading about this crap on here all the time. Instead of using the sniper rifle(1 site that you focus on completely), you guys use a shotgun approach. You create a site, quickly roll it out, then when its not an instant success you go work on something else while the site withers and dies. And you keep doing it, flinging the crap out, hoping for one of them to stick.

    That never works. Well if it does its most likely can be counted on one hand. You must go to bed thinking about your site, wake up thinking about it, and then spend your whole day working on it.

    And think about it...Did Zuckerburg have another site when he launched facebook? Did Brin have another site when he launched Google? Did Rose have another site when he launched digg? Did [enter another founder] have another site when he launched [enter another successful start up]. No, in fact almost every successful founder has been 100% vested into his product, most quit their jobs, others even went as far as quit college...to focus 100% on making their business a success.

    Nothing worth having comes easy. It'll never be poof and you are a millionaire. You must work hard on your business. Get more business contacts, do more marketing, do more partner deals, add more features, and on and on. You don't become an overnight internet millionaire, its a load of bullshit. You have to work day in and day out for 3-4 years before you'll even see success.

    But for most of you once the site doesn't become an instant hit, you throw it away and go launch another site...and the cycle keeps repeating while each failure keeps kicking you in the crothch and makes you ask..."Hrm wouldn't I be more happy, working a 9 to 5 for one of my competitors?"

    So shotgunners give me your reasoning for why your approach is so good...and some examples wouldn't hurt.
     
  2. drpepper

    drpepper Active Member

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    oh this thread is empty. sweet.
     
  3. kingtoad

    kingtoad OT Supporter

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    Pics of your sniper rifle?
     
  4. widds2v

    widds2v Active Member

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    So I take it you do the sniper rifle approach and make millions off the internet right? You sure do talk like it.
     
  5. rwdftw

    rwdftw Guest

    millions not yet, but soon:mamoru:
     
  6. wiredup

    wiredup Guest


    What you're saying applies to me. but I can justify it easily. I don't use premade scripts or sites. I build everything from the ground up myself. The end result is my resume and portfolio looks a lot better and I can make money developing not monetizing.

    I agree that one you'll be much more successful making money off a site if you devote everything to it. I personally don't have the attention span to do that yet. I like building and programming. Thats my interest.
     
  7. biawokauns

    biawokauns New Member

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    you're an idiot. you think everything is cut and dry, black and white.

    by ONLY working on one site, you effectively stifle creativity and the learning process. working on multiple sites keeps me on my toes and allows me to constantly learn. i'm not just talking about code, this applies to everything, business, code, design, marketing.
     
  8. widds2v

    widds2v Active Member

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    Agreed, I think the thing you're missing here is this...

    The people in this forum are generally the idea machines, the designers, the coders, and the marketers.. all rolled in to one. By branching out with multiple projects you get to see different angles of marketing, you get to improve your coding skills, and you constantly come up with new ideas.

    The people you listed as "only having one website" were the idea machines. Do you really think the guy for digg did all of the website coding, graphic design, marketing, etc? Do you really think the google creators, who employ some of the smartest mathematicians on earth designed their algorithm fully? These people came up with an idea, knew the right people, and ran with it. Not to mention you have no fricking idea whether they had websites prior to any current projects. I'd almost guarentee the google guys had shitty sites they coded themselves over the years, which helped them in creating their latest multi-billion dollar corporation. Do you think they're really going to admit to some 3 page geocities thing they made with the built in site editor? Negative.
     
  9. Vtec44

    Vtec44 OG!

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    Google has Adsense, Adwords, Analytics, Maps, Apps, Calendar, YouTube, etc. Some of those have nothing to with search engine. Heck, they even try to get into the mobile and wireless business.
     
  10. rwdftw

    rwdftw Guest

    If I told you the sky was blue, you'd want a second opinion.

    exactly...except calling it stifled creativity I call it focus. Sure you may know how to operate in 10 different niches...but I can guarantee you that a guy who focuses on one niche is going to be more successful than you in business. Because he can become an EXPERT in his industry.


    Take 2 guys:

    Guy A puts 100% of his energy into site A...he gets 10x more growth in business than you. He can also reach the critical mass much faster, which means he will become a key player. So by the end of first year, his site is at 100x popularity.

    Guy B on the other hand has 10 different sites. He doesn't have time to keep them all updated. It takes him much longer to reach critical mass. And even if he has some new techonology it gets copied before he can get somewhere. So at the end of the year, he has 10 sites with 10x popularity. MEDIOCRITY never pays. You either go big or go home. By spreading your most valuable resource(your own time) you are guaranteeing extreme failure.



    And the important thing is that Guy A can always go into other niches...except of starting from the bottom he gets to draw on his powerplayer site to drive users.

    Take Kijiji...its a piece of shit site, with a piece of shit interface. Yet its grown like a forestfire because eBay has a link to Kijiji on their site. And they could invest money made from their other properties into promoting it.

    Like I said...if you are going to talk shit...at least provide some examples. Please tell me of 5 startups which became successful with their owner having other shit they were doing.

    If you wanted to code different things and learn new technology what are you doing starting a startup? Be a freelancer instead, sounds like it would be the perfect solution for you...get to code and use new technologies in all sorts of niches.
     
  11. biawokauns

    biawokauns New Member

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    :rofl: you really are an idiot

    and the ironing in your post is bananas :gaysex:
     
  12. rwdftw

    rwdftw Guest

    Ideas are worthless w/o execution. If you want to do that, might as well call it a hobby instead of business.

    No the guy from digg, paid some indian $2500 to build it. What I meant is that all these big companies, started out small, then grew out to these mammoths. Instead of starting 10 small companies, they started one big company, grew it enough then added additional things to it. As far as their older sites are concerned? Does it really matter? The key is that when they made their hit, it all started with an idea, and a niche project.(eBay started out selling dolls or some crap like that). Then they started adding and adding.

    You can have one site that hits a dozen niches, and it'll grow bigger tjhan 12 sites in 12 niches.


    Yes but when they started all they did was search. Thas what I meant when I said an existing business can go in any niche they want
     
  13. widds2v

    widds2v Active Member

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    Give us some, you spew all this crap about making yourself seem like an expert in the industry yet you provide no portfolio or background on yourself. Hell.. guess what? I'm the creator of Digg, nice to meet you. I have 10000x more experience in this field than you do so how about you just step out.

    And your guy A, guy B presentation is retarded because you're missing one thing. Guy A could not have just out of the blue one day had this great idea, put it on paper, coded it, did the graphic work, and started marketing. You know how Guy A got to the point where he could work on one site and monetize it properly? He was guy B. Guy B is the realistic "starting from scratch" with no experience in any area. Trying different ideas and pitches to see how the public takes it. Improving your coding skills, building a good contact list of people you can employ for harder projects or ask for advice.. do the same for artwork, or become a photoshop expert yourself. And finally learn internet marketing, because it is an artform. Lots of people have great ideas and make great sites, but without marketing it's useless, and most people have no idea how to market. I know I don't, but I've tried various things, I've found what people like and don't like with various niches, and I'm getting better.
     
  14. Vtec44

    Vtec44 OG!

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    That's the assumption that we have. For all we know, they may have been working on other stuff, but since this particular idea took off they dropped the other stuff and focused on search instead. A lot of ideas are trial and error, business is about evolving with time and technology, flexible and adaptable to changes. A good business model is to start small with low overhead, then expand later. Thomas Alva Edison didn't just stick to just 1 idea, he made a lot of atempts at many ideas and stuck to whatever worked for him.
     
  15. rwdftw

    rwdftw Guest

    No you aren't, and I did provide examples of businesses where the founder focused 100% on it, and it succeeded. Show me some founders that became successful while doing their startup part time.
    It'll be hard for you have success if you attempt to do everything yourself. You can't be a top of the line front end guy, top of the line designer, top of the line business guy, top of the line back end guy, top of the line marketer, top of the line Server administrator. You gotta outsource all the things you suck at, so that you can focus 100% on making your product the best. By outsourcing you can be best at everything, and your product will show it. Instead of having an ok site and then ruining it with shitty placement of google ads. Your own example just shows that I'm right...you are trying to find out what people like/don't like in different niches...but if you focused on just one niche, you could know exactly what your users like, know exactly what features they want etc. You can't be all things to all people.

    Thats what I've been saying. You need to start out small. Starting 10 different websites is not starting small.

    + can you imagine the clusterfuck in somene's head if they need to know UI, marketing and trends for a dozen different niches?
     
  16. biawokauns

    biawokauns New Member

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  17. rwdftw

    rwdftw Guest

    and like I said...Show me some examples where the buckshot approach worked. Its gonna be mighty hard, because when you use a buckshot approach instead of releasing a top of the line product, you release something very generic.
     
  18. rwdftw

    rwdftw Guest

    how much money have you earned from Meeta so far? Did you earn 20 bucks yet?:mamoru: Come back to me when your site makes more money than you spend on hosting.
     
  19. Ricky

    Ricky █▄ █▄█ █▄ ▀█▄

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    I have ADHD :o

    Even if my site is getting lots of hits or none at all... if i have an idea or get bored of my site i'll start a new one.
     
  20. biawokauns

    biawokauns New Member

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    :rofl: that statement alone shows that you have no understanding of how the internet works.

    meeta is not about a quick buck, but i do like how you keep bringing it up in every thread you post. we are continually refining and improving meeta, so when we do launch, we will have our bases covered.

    you think you're a sly guy, "Come back to me when your site makes more money than you spend on hosting" :rofl: our parked adult domains pay for our three dedicated, co-located servers. that doesn't include any of our other web properties, affiliate marketing, arbitrage, our SEO/SEM retainers, or our consulting. our other projects are successful? NEVER! you can only do one thing at a time!!111

    industry standard is 1% CTR, we're looking at 1.5% with google ads, and 3% with our house ads. our affiliate partnerships net more than any partnership available to the public, why, because we built a product they believed in as well. but, then again, you wouldn't know about any of that, would you?

    :gaysex:
     
  21. rtzcom

    rtzcom bon wons! fight slepa for life sone!~

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    url of sites where you applied said buckshot approach...and proof of success.
     
  22. Vtec44

    Vtec44 OG!

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    That's always tough because you try 1000 ideas to get 1 idea right. Once you have that 1 idea, no one cares about the other 999 ideas that failed. Most news are reported about that 1 successful idea and not the 999 failed one. Starting with 10 different sites that will cost you the same as starting one site=low overhead. New services/technology allows you to do that now, so there's not much investment into 1 or 10. On top of that, there may also be downtime between ad campaigns that will allow you to multi-task.

    There are quite a few web management companies out there that own huge forums for different audience. Vertical Scope and Internet Brands come to mind.

    You may work on that single idea, or a site, forever and it may never make enough money to get you anywhere. Hard work can only get you so far on the Internet. You're competing against other hard working individuals just like yourself so work hard on a single idea alone may not be enough.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2008
  23. rwdftw

    rwdftw Guest

    Sure I do...there are startups(hay lets give it away for free and make millions with adsense, it worked for ____!) and then there are businesses.

    Are you going to be like Google where you have Beta on your logo 10 years from now? Although I don't think that'll be a problem...you'll drop the project in a year and go do something else. HEY! I hear there is a ton of money in photohosting sites...you can be a millionaire!

    3 servers? easy there champ, do you need a permit to wield that kind of firepower? Did you get permission from department of defense to use that much electricity? Really man...you shouldn't play with this country's safety like that. We need to use that electricity to power this country's defenses. Seriously I could see you bragging if you had a 100 servers....maybe even 20. But 3? Whats that $1,500-$2,000 per month? You better pay that shit man...you don't want your host to go bankrupt.

    As far for the rest, I'd be surprised if all that nets you more than $500K/yr, and since thats split among 8 people, you can hardly call it a lot of money. (Remember how I talked about having too many people being a problem? Imagine if all that $500K went into your pocket)

    There is a difference between running a business, and doing small bullshit on the side. Running 2 businesses at the same time? Not a good idea. Doing some bs on the side to generate some lunch money, up to you. If you notice, in my original post I specifically pointed out that this doesn't apply to adword farmers. But then again your other "businesses" basically amount to installed scripts aimed at specific niches.

    I'm not surprised you have higher CTR than average. Thats because your site is flooded with ads. And it hinders the user experience. See if you had hired a UI Expert, he would have placed the ads so that they wouldn't be an eyesore. So sure some users are clicking on them, but thats probably to get out of your site so that they never have to come back.

    And you talk about refining the site etc....what the hell man...you just have a free dating site...one of MILLIONS out there...what makes you think you can beat other free sites that launched 6 years ago? You have nothing special. Hell you don't even have the money to promote it right. I wish I had your confidence going up so many competitors, when I had absolutely nothing new to offer. Or do you honestly think that letting users join groups suddenly makes it a category killer? :mamoru:
     
  24. Vtec44

    Vtec44 OG!

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    This debate has turned into an e-cock waving contest. lol
     
  25. rwdftw

    rwdftw Guest

    Sure it may not be enough...but at least you even up the odds. Who do you think will win? The guy who puts in a half assed effort or the guy who goes all out on that one idea?

    And yes you need to refine the idea....my original idea went through 6 iterations before I stumbled on this one...and this current idea has grown by leaps and bounds from the or original concept. But thats the thing...I was able to focus all my efforts on my one property. I was able to see right away where the problems lied. I could roll with the punches instead of finding out 4 months from now that a competitor came out wiht hte same product for lower price. When you have 10 sites that means you gotta do this for all of them: market research, marketing, customer support, adding features, quickly fixing bugs. Etc etc. So you are always a step behind.

    Forums really don't count, they don't do any marketing or promotion...the just own those. And the ones you mentioned don't start forums, they just buy big ones and slap their ads on them.

    And thats why I oppose the whole "Hay lets give it away for free" concept that this web2.0 era has generated. I started charging money from day 1 my site opened. Why? Because I had a quality product. And no it wasn't 5 bucks or 10 bucks, it was a lot higher. This way I was able to generate a very good income pretty much from month #1.

    Different people have different opinions, they think that a paid service is inherently better than a free ad supported one. + People really do get annoyed by all those ads
     

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