SRS Sleep; I can't do it.

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Papa Sil, Oct 5, 2009.

  1. Papa Sil

    Papa Sil Privileged User

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    I suck at sleeping.

    I can lay in bed for hours, having felt tired enough to sleep, and not be able to sleep. Right now it's 1:10AM, I have to be awake by 6AM. This makes for a very rough morning for me. Now, you'd think that with the lack of sleep I am going to be getting that by tomorrow evening I will be tired enough to fall right asleep. No, not the case. In the evening something happens where I become "awake" and unable to sleep.

    I consume no caffeine and am always doing some sort of physical workout/labor almost every day of the week.

    I do have depression. I have been on Bupropion (sp?) for about 6 months now. It's helped on the depression front. I added this only to aid whomever may have the knowledge on the subject at hand and would appreciate knowing any medication I'm on.

    My mind constantly runs. I am always thinking of what I have to do. It sometimes gets so overwhelming, I just don't know what to do. I don't want to say I have "voices" inside my head because that would make me nuts. I do, however, have MY voice in my head that I can HEAR constantly telling me what I need to do next or how I should handle a situation.

    I understand that everyone may have something like this going on with them to a certain extent as well and that this is not some isolated occurrence and I happen to be the only person suffering from it. I do believe that my case may be somewhat more far along; if that makes any sense.

    My father is a doctor. He's the one who provided me with the Rx for my anti-depressant after long talks with him. I have no med. insurance so going to him was a no-brainer. He is great at what he does, has many awards, has been Chief of Medicine at the hospital around here. My problem with going to him with what I may think is wrong with me now is that he is the type of doc. to rarely write Rx's and only does so in the mstt extreme conditions. He is the one that always tells you how to change YOURSELF and NOT rely on medications to do the work for you. I think that this method is absolutely awesome. I really do. I personally hate having to take meds. I don't want to rely on them to get me through life on a day-to-day basis. I don't know where to draw the line, however...

    I go to school full time as well. I have a very difficult time paying attention. I always catch myself in some other train of thought. Always. I don't know what the hell it is. I could be sitting in my calc. class and catch myself thinking of building a house in the game The Sims 3. This was Friday :mamoru: Seriously though, this type of thing happens constantly.

    How do I go about changing MYSELF to remedy these situations? I am a firm believer in strength and the power to control ones own mind. I would never give up and allow meds. to dictated my brain function on a daily basis because I am not able to. However, I am taking an anti-depressant med.; I obviously wasn't able to take care of that on my own.

    I know this sounds like I am just rambling, but I have no one else to talk to. I know the standard on OT has gone the proverbial shitter lately, but I know there are still good people who give good advice left on this forum. I tend to believe they're located in the sub-forums :o

    In summary:

    - I have a terrible time sleeping. I have taken melatonin - a lot of it - with no result. I consume no caffeine.

    - My mind constantly runs. I can't concentrate on anything else other than what my head is thinking about. It talks a lot louder than I can hear.

    - I might be going insane :eek3:

    - Spanish is a dumb language and I dislike taking it in school :hsugh:
     
  2. Darketernal

    Darketernal Watch: Aria The Origination =)

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    You have the washing machine syndrome ,no doubt about it. Normally our brain processes things like a laundry machine. You think about something, you process it, then you discard it. However some stains are so dirty they'll never leave your clothes, your mind keeps brain washing these thoughts on and on and on, but the stains never go away. Washing won't help, those thoughts need to be thrown away into the garbage bin.

    You see, when you 'worry' , the brain stem sends signals to the brain to 'stay awake', meaning that as long as you worry you stay awake, which you do. This was a survival instinct to stay awake, when for instance lions were wondering around, makes pretty much sense at 1 million b.c but these survival instincts are useless in modern society most of the time and just deprive you from your sleep.

    Taking medicines or sleeping pills isn't going to improve the situation either , they indeed are as your father says symptom supressors and not problem solvers, the brain is a very delicate electro chemical based organ which you should never mess with, psychiatrists give out medicines nowadays asif it were candy but in reality there's no such thing as a 'pill for every problem' , your problems come from the exterior world and require an exterior solution.

    This has got a lot more to do with just sleeping, you're whole life is a mess. You need to be like a garbage man and throw everything that's bad for you out of the window, throw away Sims 3 and start working on your problems instead. only spend your time on doing usefull things. And there's tons of more useless things that you do in your life, throw them away. Start taking your school seriously and only spend your time on your study. Once you are done studying and ready to goto bed, stop forcing yourself to sleep, stop worrying and stop the washing machine from continueing on in your mind by pressing the stop button. But what is the trick to it? Its this, when you are in bed, don't say to yourself 'i have to sleep , i have to sleep , i have to sleep' , say to yourself 'i am just perfectly fine just laying here, and then you will fall asleep' , don't take medication to aid you for sleeping, your sleep must come naturally.
     
  3. Eurostaunch

    Eurostaunch New Member

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    Bupropion is an atypical stimulant, that could be causing your mind to run. Did the same occur before you were put on it? If you can handle the depression without it you may consider getting off the medication after talking to your doctor. You could also try getting a prescription for sleeping pills (or try OTC ones, as was said) or smoking some weed before bed, but you may feel groggy in the morning if you overdo it; or not, since you would actually sleep through the night. Melatonin helps some people but it isn't very powerful.
     
  4. planeh

    planeh Guest

    Melatonin, it will change your life.
     
  5. Eurostaunch

    Eurostaunch New Member

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    He said he tried that, but to no avail.
     
  6. registeredPORK

    registeredPORK Happy Poo Poo

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    I have the same problem (and maybe I'm wrong in trying to keep the same problem within one thread...) where I lay in bed and can't sleep. Take last night for example... the radio is on (for white noise) and all of a sudden I start thinking about baking.

    -- Start thinking about my old cooking exam
    -- start thinking about what I could of done with the fish, chicken, veggies, sauces, etc
    -- start thinking about making chocolate mousse
    -- start thinking about what if it was white chocolate mousse
    -- start thinking about plating designs
    -- start thinking about what would work with the mousse
    -- start thinking about garnishes

    My mind then started to pin point to the mousse, the plating of it, and the design. It made me go crazy a little because although I tired not concentrating on it, my thoughts would go back to it.

    And then I felt hungry. :(
     
  7. lick wid nit wit

    lick wid nit wit Official OT Oracle

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    I have the same problem too. My mind spins constantly. I also have ADHD and Asperger's so that probably factors in somewhat. I tried *everything* from behavior modification to sleep therapy and *nothing* worked. My doctor figures after years and years of trying everything under the sun that maybe I'm simply one of those people who suffer from chronic insomnia.

    Oh, trust me I've tried melatonin and valerian root and neither of them work. You just might have to resort to pharmaceutical intervention. My doctor prescribed xanax and zopiclone. They were godsends, especially the zopiclone. I did try trazedone to sleep and while it worked, it gave me such a bad hangover.

    Sometimes there's simply nothing else you can do. BTW, I used to get panic attacks when I'd go on trips because I was terrified of not being able to sleep in the hotels. It was awful. :(
     
  8. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    I've suffered from horrible insomnia through out the years and nothing, NOTHING is worse than needing to sleep and not being able to sleep. It's a particular kind of hell that not many people can understand or appreciate.

    I've found that when I have a lot of my mind and it starts running when I try to sleep, that pulling out a sheet of paper and writing down all the crazy thoughts really does help. I write whatever is in my mind no matter if the punctuation is correct or the grammar....it doesn't matter. All that matters is getting it all down on paper so I don't forget. Then, if the same thoughts come up, I can say to my mind, STFU!!! :)

    I've also found that going to bed at the same time and getting up at the same time helps tremendously. I can't stress this enough.....it really does matter.

    Oh and try to eat something mild before going to bed. Something with little or no sugar and something that's not spicy. I like eggs. It helps me feel full and doesn't throw my blood sugar for a loop.

    My grandma used to say, when you wake up in the middle of the night, it's because of low blood sugar and that really does seem to be on cause of my insomnia.....I wake up and can't go back to sleep until I eat something then *BAM* I fall asleep HARD.

    Just so you know, you're most likely NOT going insane.
     
  9. zatotheck

    zatotheck New Member

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    Sheesh and I thought I was one of the only people experiencing this. I have had insomnia on and off for about 5 years now. Just like you guys, when I lay down to go to sleep my mind begins to race. I mean seriously, I can almost feel my brain hurting from thinking so much.

    Here's how it used to be:
    I lay down. I look at the clock, I tell myself I need to sleep. I try to fall asleep but my mind begins racing. I look at the clock. Get angry at myself because I haven't fallen asleep yet. My mind continues to race some more. I look at the clock and I think about how horrible I'm going to feel tomorrow because I only have 3 hours before I have to be up. About an hour later I finally fall into a slumber where I am half asleep half awake. Alarm clock rings. I feel like I haven't slept all night. Rinse and repeat.

    I can't even describe how I am now. In as little words as possible, my sleep is FUCKED UP. I have some really weird shit going on. I think I need to see a doctor or some specialist. I take quite some time to fall asleep. When I finally do fall asleep I hear a loud BOOM in my dreams and I wake up. The boom is never real its just in my mind. Also, I will be in the middle of a dream and the dream will literally echo out into reality. Like lets say I am dreaming of having a conversation with someone. They will say something and it will literally echo. The image and sound of the dream with echo until it dies out and I find myself awake. Fucking weird shit. I think I need help.

    ANYWAY, to the OP:

    Here are some things that have helped me in the past:

    -Ambien. This did some great things for me and helped me sleep for quite some time. I find that it almost makes you delusional. Even if you stay up you will become disoriented and you won't be able to think clearly. Therefore your mind will stop racing and since your body is tired you will naturally fall asleep.

    -Watching cartoons or something light hearted show while you lie in bed. I usually watch Aqua teen hunger force (i love that show, lol). I find that its often such a simple thing to watch. Theres no drama in it, no real meaning or lessons to be learned from cartoons. It helps get you relaxed and keeps your mind away from complex thoughts.

    -Keep clocks out of sight. Looking at the time will only make it worse.

    Hope some of this helps. And if anyone is experiencing something similar to me let me know.
     
  10. Saluki

    Saluki New Member

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    Wow...sounds exactly like me a couple years ago. My situation got turned around when I started taking Adderol. I could concentrate in class again and my inner monologue finally stopped. I started doing instead of thinking including sleeping. I remember sitting in bed EXHAUSTED and not being able to sleep because my mind was rambling about unimportant things. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about this stuff with someone that isn't your dad.
     
  11. lick wid nit wit

    lick wid nit wit Official OT Oracle

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    I've been dealing with sleep issues since, well, since I was born, according to my mom. Lovely, huh?

    I honestly don't remember *not* having issues sleeping. :(
     
  12. Papa Sil

    Papa Sil Privileged User

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    Hey guys (and potentially girls), thanks a lot for the great information and words of wisdom/constructive criticism. I've already began to heed some of the advice and am talking to some additional people.

    The other night got real bad for me, though.

    It was just a normal weekday night. There was nothing throughout the day that would have been considered out of the ordinary. Anyhow, I was pretty tired toward the latter part of the evening. I put some music on low, and got in bed - like normal. My mind was going like crazy, per the norm., but I laid there for almost two hours without being able to stop my head from TALKING, much less falling asleep.

    I was so frustrated I started... crying. Not bawling (trying to save some face here), but I was definitely tearing up and was the furthest from falling asleep.

    I know someone can still say, "this is a mind over matter thing.", "you have control over your head, simply stop thinking and go to sleep.", "wake up earlier, you'll fall asleep earlier." The fact of the matter is, those things are impossible - save for the waking up early thing. As I said in my original post, I wake up early every damn day.

    I'm going to talk to an OTer a bit further here and keep on trying to figure this thing out.

    Thanks again, people. I appreciate the time taken to reply regarding my plight.
     
  13. Darketernal

    Darketernal Watch: Aria The Origination =)

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    I basically just see it like a formula 1 racing car, sometimes you race, and sometimes you need to press the brakes in the curves. During your sleep, forcefully supress your thoughts , any thought that comes up, press on the brakes.
     
  14. Coottie

    Coottie BOOMER......SOONER OT Supporter

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    You have obviously never suffered from long term insomnia.

    Do you honestly think we haven't tried that?
     
  15. D-FENS

    D-FENS New Member

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    You sound alot like me.

    I've had horrible sleep problems since I was in elementary school. I'm lucky to get even one "good" night of sleep a year, as in I wake up feeling rested and alert, actually wanting to get out of bed for reasons other than having to take a piss or because im so sore from laying down for so long.
    I've tried all the suggested drugs/meds, nothing helps. Melatonin doesn't do anything, benadryl/diphenhydramine will knock me out, but I often feel even worse after waking from than than I would if I just didn't sleep at all. I've tried Lunesta and Ambien, same thing, it'll help render me unconscous, but I don't actually get the resting effect from real sleep. I typically sleep in a 4.5-5 hour period, and I usually find myself waking up 2-3 times a night to go to the bathroom, get a drink, or sometimes for no reason and I'll just lay awake in bad for 15 minutes till I fall back asleep. Of actual total sleep time every night, I'd venture a guess of 3.5-4 hours. Right now (3pm on Sunday) I can't fall asleep when I'm laying in bed, even though I haven't even gotten a single minute of sleep since I woke up at about 4pm on Friday (couldn't sleep the night before, slept for a little while when I got back from classes in the morning.)
    One of the most aggravating parts of my sleep troubles are how other people don't understand it. It's not as much of an issue now that I'm living on my own, but when I was a kid, especially when my parents still tried enforcing a bed time, that was the most frustrating thing of all. I'd explain to them that my body/brain isn't ready to sleep, so it's not gonna happen. They'd say no, just read a boring book, count sheep, put on some soft music, etc.
    The most aggravating part of all this was that my dad, the one usually trying to enforce the bed time, he was one of those people who can fall asleep just leaning against a wall in a brightly lit room with loud music playing. I can be in the most comfortable bed on earth, pitch black room, and a fan on the lowest setting (in absolute silence, I hear a very uncomfortable ringing noise, so a fan is the best kind of quiet I can ge), but if my brain isn't set for sleep mode yet, it simply won't happen. I've tried everything, all the drugs, all the self-help books, all the relxaing sounds tapes, all of the mental techniques, and I still find myself laying in bed unable to sleep.
    I don't wanna come across as one of those fuckers who thinks smoking pot will cure cancer, make you live forever and gain superpowers with absolutely no negative effects, but I did find that smoking pot helped somewhat to get me to sleep. However, I often find myself waking up an hour or two later needing somethign to drink, I get bad enough cottonmoth from sleep alone, pot just compounds the problem, and I still feel a little stoned/tired in the morning, but I weigh that against how tired I would feel if I was to stay awake another 2 hours (and therefore get 2 hours less sleep). It certainly isn't a cure and I wouldn't want to find myself relying on it regularly, but it can be helpful. As we all know though it's illegal, so use caution if you're going to try that route.

    However, given that I've been dealing with these sleep problems for over a decade, I've gotten pretty well used to it. I can just recognize by now whether or not my brain is on fully alert, or if it is on standby mode and willing to let me shut down. There isn't much I can do, I just don't bother wasting my time getting into bed if my body isn't ready to sleep yet, so I'll just stay up a bit longer and watch tv or play video games, and maybe an hour later I'll be ready.
     
  16. springy101

    springy101 When god comes and calls me to his kingdom, I'll t

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    I'm kind of like most of the posters in this thread but my insomnia started during a month long hospital stay about 3 years ago. I was really into car audio then and all I could think about while trying to fall asleep were sub box dimensions and amplifiers :rofl: I tried a bunch of rx sleeping pills and none of them worked. Then I tried an over the counter one called Unisom and it has been the best at putting me to sleep. I would take one about 8 or 9 and by 11 my mind would feel so exhausted I would stagger to my bed and fall asleep. After about a week of using these I was able to fall alseep at the same time naturally and that worked well for about a month until I had a few late nights in a row out with friends and put me right back where I started.
     
  17. Wonderboy

    Wonderboy New Member

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    this works great for me.. i usually put on seinfeld or south park or arrested development (something i have already seen and know the ending of) and it helps me fall asleep... it keeps my mind from thinking as the story lines of these shows are pretty simple
     
  18. Wonderboy

    Wonderboy New Member

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    also i'm so fucking jealous of people who just put their head down and fall asleep in a second.. even for a nap on a chair or something..

    i want to smack them in the head...

    i wish i could just take naps :(...
    if i lay down for an hour nap, i will spinning around in my bed for 1 hour, and get up all angry for not being able to fall asleep
     
  19. Guz200sx

    Guz200sx The man who does more than he is paid for will soo

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    Whats the point of this statement? It has nothing to do with the rest of the post.
     
  20. Wonderboy

    Wonderboy New Member

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    it's a joke.. calm down there tiger
    it's funny cuz it's completely unrelated
     
  21. pbjsammich

    pbjsammich New Member

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    As you can see by the replies, I don't think your situation is out of the norm. I believe that by you THINKING this is a serious problem, you're actually making it worse.

    I had this same issue going through college. A never ending fight was going on in my head everynight....am I going to pass this class...if I don't, then I can't take THIS class next semester, which will throw my graduation off another year....I need to pick up some hours at work because of that speeding ticket I got 2 weeks ago, crap I need to grocery shop and have no cash!! Sometimes in the middle of the night, I'd wake up and my heart would be pounding so hard, I could actually see it throbbing in my chest. I found out later on this was a "panic attack."

    IMO, it's stress, plain and simple. YOU need to figure out how to cope with it and move on. And who doesn't daydream in class? Stop trying to tell yourself there's a problem with you and dedicate your efforts to finding what WORKS for you.

    What worked for me is similar to what others have said:

    Exercise: I don't care how loud your voice is in your head, if you're physically exhausted you're going to get some rest. I realized that by moving my cardio (run/jog) to the morning, I felt great when it was time to go to class. Cool air would wake me up, along with a shower. Also....THIS is the time I would dedicate to working things out in my head. I was all alone, no ipod, peace and quiet....just a 30-45 minute time to myself.

    Evenings: Like you, I didn't take much away from my classes. I was truly one of those people that HAD to read the book everynight. I'd review my class notes, and that seemed to work well for me. So, I'd get home from work, do my lifting, sit-ups, push ups....then pull out my books and notes, read and do hw. 75% of the time, I could get everything done by 10:00. Then, I turned on the Simpsons. As someone else pointed out, this was my way of winding my brain down. It's funny, but simple enough that I unplugged from the day and shut everything down.

    By the time my head hit the pillow, I'd be out. This continued for 3 years in college. A LOT of good suggestions in this thread. Try them out and see if they work.
     
  22. METALLlC BLUE

    METALLlC BLUE New Member

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    What time of day are you taking the Buproprion?
     
  23. civicmon

    civicmon got all my game from the streets of california.

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    Seriously. try taking it in the morning.

    I've been doing this my whole life. I probably sleep ~4 hours a night. Once I'm asleep, I typically don't wake up but maybe once a week I will. Sometimes, I won't fall back asleep.

    I'm typically up till 1-2am and up around 6:30am or so. When I don't have to work, I'm usually able to sleep pretty late.

    The other day, I was up till 7am (and this is after drinking about 8 beers), took two melatonin and hoped to sleep until noon or so.. woke up at damn near 5pm. ugh. at least I didn't have to work that day...
     
  24. Genghis.Tron

    Genghis.Tron New Member

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    Sounds like generalized anxiety more than anything else, although you haven't talked about many symptoms.
    Stop talking to your dad about this, this is a conflict of interest. Go see a doctor with whom you aren't related and get evaluated by a psychologist maybe.
     
  25. chickenfeather

    chickenfeather New Member

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    Maybe try meditation, to practice clearing your mind. Go somewhere really quiet, and sit on a comfortable pillow. Then close your eyes and take a really really slow breath in through your nose. Make note of how cool the air feels as it goes in. Then breathe out as slowly as you can through your mouth. Make note of how warm the air feels as it exits. Try to think of nothing else but breathing. Do this ten times and then go about the rest of your day.
     

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