SiCKO

Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by kronik85, Jun 14, 2007.

  1. kronik85

    kronik85 New Member

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    wow. that's all i can really say.

    first of all, i just wanna say i've always absolutely hated michael moore. i've never really liked many/any of his films and always thought he was a douchebag. this film changed alot of my thoughts on him. the torrent came out last night, it's excellent quality and can be gotten from many public and private trackers/newsgroups etc.



    first of all i noticed the film was 2 hours long, so i put it off till today to watch it. i'm sorry i did. moore uses his usual semi-journalistic approach to documentary by interviewing people, traveling to locations, doing research and presenting facts. the whole movie was an eye opener to how disgustingly pathetic the united states' health care system. he goes to canada, france, and cuba (i might have missed one or two) to interview many of their citizens on how they view their health care system. he debunks many myths that socialized health care is second rate, slow, and/or inadequate. he actually brought a boat of 9/11 rescue workers who weren't getting health care in the united states to CUBA of all places to get health care. :eek3: i'm sitting here writing this and watched this movie while tonguing a small chip in one of my teeth that i want to get fixed, but can't afford to thinking if i lived in cuba of all places.... it'd be fixed for damn near free.

    moore juxtaposes several lives with similar scenarios between our health care system and socialized french or canadian systems and how in similar situations ours failed. fuck, in france, if you have to ride to the hospital in an ambulance, the hospital reimburses you for the costs of transportation.

    i know, i know. their taxes are higher to cover the costs but fuck people, we've got to be able to do better than we're doing now. where people's health is a fuckin business and the longer you deny them care, the more profitable your company becomes.

    i really really hope this film becomes an eye opener to the current state of health care in america. because when cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the united states, you know something is fucked up :wtc:
     
  2. tefnut

    tefnut build

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    So, what exactly does he suggest to fix things? Anyone can bitch and moan, it's another thing to come up with a good solution. Throwing money at the problem is the only way to go about it that's been shown to work - after all, that's how Canada, France and Cuba do it - so I'd like to see how many Americans would like to have their taxes doubled or tripled for the sake of health care.

    Oh, and Moore is a cunt. I waited over half a year for an urgent neurologist appointment in Canada, so he take his "socialized health care isn't slow" idea and fuck himself with it. I imagine the rest of the journalism he does provides similar half-truths and convenient oversights.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2007
  3. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    Moore is great at showing a problem but not any sort of solution. After Bowling for Columbine I was like, well he has a point I guess, but what was it? There was something there, I just don't know what it was, and honestly I couldn't really tell why the movie was made or why anyone cared. Same for every other movie of his I've seen... hopefully it's different here.
     
  4. Kalypso

    Kalypso New Member

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    Just watched it and yeah, wow, good movie. I'll have to re-watch it to make sure I wasnt just blinded by whatever, but it was at the least Moores best work yet. Well worth watching.
     
  5. kronik85

    kronik85 New Member

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    cmon cuba? gdp of 44 billion compared to our 12,000 billion? i realize they're a smaller country with fewer people but seriously, when you can buy an inhaler prescription for $120 here, and $.05 there, where medical doctors can focus on actually treating people, rather than turning them away because they can't afford to pay, where lobbyists are running the country and CEOs are making millions and billions. it's just fucked up and you know there has to be a better way of doing things. and other "lesser" countries are accomplishing it so handily. you really have to wonder whats driving this country. the almighty dollar.
     
  6. kronik85

    kronik85 New Member

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    on average how long does it take to receive treatments? if you had to guess?
     
  7. KNYTE

    KNYTE I'm Not Kidding.

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    You can buy cheap meds in Cuba if you want to pay taxes through the nose and live under a dictator. Good luck with that.

    Socialist propaganda. Walk into any Emergency Room with a life-threatening issue in the United States and you will be helped. What's wrong with CEOs making billions? Would it be fair for you to benefit from their hard work? No.

    There isn't a better way to do it. If the "better" systems of healthcare are so great why do people around the world come to the US for any kind of specialized treatment/procedure?

    You are fooling yourself if you don't think the dollar is what drives every other government and country in the world. If you don't like it do something about it or elect someone who will. Bitching about it on internet forums and making shock-documentaries (that do only one thing: line Moore's pockets) do absolutely nothing.

    Anyway, this isn't a debate forum.

    You liked the movie, you think others should watch it. /thread
     
  8. Wilddog

    Wilddog OT Supporter

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    I had to wait a month to urgently see a thyroid specialist. I was rather upset on the wait until my family doctor informed me on the number of thyroid specialists in Toronto vs. how notorious the great lake areas are for thyroid issues. It has nothing to do with the socialist system, and Everything to do with the number of doctors specializing in a field vs. how many people need to see them.

    On another note, this film was very interesting and although I'll always take Moore's ideologies with a grain of salt, I loved it regardless. And now I want to live in France, 5-8 weeks of vacation time a year?!?!?! WOW
     
  9. SS109

    SS109 3100 FPS OT Supporter

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    The HMO's do need to be exposed but Moore is the wrong person to do it. He is a clown who plays very loose with the facts.
    I would much prefer a Frontline documentary.
     
  10. smokedherb

    smokedherb New Member

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    Actually the movie gives examples of citizens who were rejected b/c of lack of insurance and then DIE

    This shit happens all the time.

    And as for CEOs making billions....well capitalism is grand but America implements it with no moral or ethical insight and thus CEOs have infested all aspects of society and government and run them with out any concern for what may be right or wrong.


    Selfish pigs run most of corporate america and our entire executive branch of government so all that money the US might make compared to other countries never benefits its citizens
     
  11. BradBell

    BradBell New Member

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    Does it matter who presents the film if the contents are facts? I have seen people debate Moore's credibility, the merits of the Canadian, British and Cuban healthcare systems, but not one person argue that our system isn't in need of serious change.

    As for whether someone would be denied healthcare in an emergency situation. Yes, you may be helped in a life-threating emergency, but then the insurance companies will stick you with a $50,000+ bill. There was one example in the preview where a woman, who I believe was in a car wreck, had her insurance company say that she needed to get the ambulance ride pre-approved . .. hard to do when you're unconscious. Not to mention the former insurance company employee who testified that she was bascially promoted due to denying coverage for necessary and life-saving procedures. It's hard to ignore this kind of perspective and it's not coming from Moore's mouth.
     
  12. apman0000

    apman0000 OT Supporter

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    what a bunch of bullshit cry baby propaganda. Moore does 1 thing very well, he takes an issue complains about it for an hour and a half and comes up with witty ways to emphasize his point and offers no ideas for fixing the problems he demonstrates.

    no governement provided healthcare is easily fixed, GET A DAMN JOB AND BUY INSURANCE, yes you can afford it, drive a shittier car, live in a smaller apartment, buy less fancy clothes etc.

    Fuck michael moore and his bullshit propaganda and fuck his movies, and fuck this thread i'm out lol
     
  13. spooky

    spooky OT Supporter

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    did you watch the movie because you sound like you're talking outta your asshole.

    the people who got rejected had insurance, hint hint, you need to have insurance to get rejected.
     
  14. apman0000

    apman0000 OT Supporter

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    you can find some hard luck examples for anything and any topic, doesnt' mean a thing. the guy does a good job of fooling a bunch of folks into believing in a cause that he doestn care about himself while he runs straight to the bank to cash his checks.

    i've seen his past movies and will skip this one because his past movies were enough to show his true colors

    if you enjoy propaganda and are easily fooled to follow a false cause then by all means go to his movies
     
  15. Joybang

    Joybang New Member

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    Dislike Moore much? That sounds like mostly bullshit because you don't like him. Can you seriously say our health care system isn't fucked up? When Drs. charge you hundreds of dollars for a 30 second visit?
     
  16. Mopar03

    Mopar03 73-9 OT Supporter

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    bias much? :ugh:

    I've disliked Moore as much as the next guy, but you're an absolute FOOL to believe that socialized medicine wouldn't be a huge improvement compared to where this country's health care system is headed.
     
  17. RedGoober4Life

    RedGoober4Life New Member

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    Many times getting insurance companies to pay for something is still a hassle. This is true with even the best of plans.
     
  18. auto

    auto New Member

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    I have never been a big fan of Moore's work but I think sicko is his best to date. Really triggered some emotions seeing those people get they help they needed. For those who have mentioned he provides no solutions to the problem, is that really his job? Sure his methods my be suspect but he has a real knack for displaying the problem in a form thats palletable for the average person.
     
  19. Rat Face

    Rat Face Guest

    I work full time on an ambulance and our health care system is fucked becaue of all the frequent flyers we pick up that know exactly how to abuse the system. And this goes for all colors of people. Its because of them that those of us that do have insurance get ever increasing premiums while these abusers of the system get free health care for life and abuse the hell out of by going to the er for everything.
     
  20. ovraiment?

    ovraiment? New Member

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    No. But he presents little facts, and more stories set to pull on your heart strings. And he always fails to leave out very important facts that don't jive with his ideals.

    The American Health System has always been in serious need of change. I guess the only advantage of this film is it reached the ignorant masses who prefer to get all their information in a visually pleasing manner instead of actually doing some research on their own.
     
  21. ovraiment?

    ovraiment? New Member

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    Again, you guys act like how fucked up our health care system is a new idea brought up by Michael Moore. The good that came from the movie is he got people to talk about the issues, although I don't think there was 1 ounce of actual insight into the health care system in this movie.

    Also, I agree we do need serious health care reform, thats something anyone in the industry, and anyone that does 10 seconds of research could observe.

    And usually it isn't the Doctor charging a high premium for the visit, it is the hospital. The reason isn't as sinister as you think. At the local med center, for every 12 patients they see, only 1 is insured. The hospital must raise the fees to those who actually pay to cover the other 11 patients that can't pay. This raises the insurance premiums, so less people can afford insurance, so they have to raise the prices again. It is an ugly cycle.


    And for the record, I am in favor of socialized health care.
     
  22. ovraiment?

    ovraiment? New Member

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    What do you think specifically needs to be exposed about HMOs?

    They get a really bad rap, but of the other health care manager options available in the US right now, I don't think it is any worse off. Granted, I am still in my 20s and never had to deal with anything where I need to see a specialist, or really anything besides my regular check-ups.

    HMOs are very restrictive; but I don't think that is reason enough to blow them off. They kind of seem like the answer to and against socialized health care. People claim they cant afford health care, but HMOs are a very cheap compared to other options, and things we spend money on (car insurance for example). Your primary care physician might have problems trying to refer you out to a specialist. But this is the part I love about HMOs, in theory at least, the doctors are more successful if they keep you healthy. You already paid the money, so they push preventative care to keep their costs down, and their wallets fat.

    We know there are plenty of problems but what do we do?
    Usually I am against more government power/control... But I think some sort of government health care credit might be good, sort of like food stamps. Get more people covered by some sort of insurance, but still giving them the option to choose what provider to go with. It will keep the per capita cost of health care down, a lot of potential problems could be caught earlier on, and appropriate steps can be taken to prevent the severity. But it will still take advantage of any possible advances health care that competition provides.

    At the very least, I think the public needs to be more informed on health care issues. And as much as skeptical as I am about Moore's claims, and his style of "reporting", I am glad he brought up the questions, so hopefully more people will think and talk about it.

    Edit: Bleh, can't believe i wrote all that when i just wanted to type "bump" to get more opinions on the issue.
     
  23. huntz0r

    huntz0r New Member

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    And what happens instead in countries with socialized medicine is that people have to get on a list and some die waiting to see a specialist or get an operation. Little difference except that in the socialist model everyone gets to share in the misery, which makes it fair... or something.

    Anyway I dunno if I will watch Sicko. I saw F.9/11 and it was pretty much what I expected.
     
  24. pints99

    pints99 New Member

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    I dunno about you, but I dont' want to lose 20% more of paycheck to pay for some asshats healthcare. I work for mine, you work for yours.
     
  25. trkylips1016

    trkylips1016 New Member

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    So I just watched it on DVD and I thought it was funny when Moore payed for that guy's wife surgury. (the one who almost had to shut down his Anti-Moore website).
     

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