GUN Show us your...

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by kellyclan, Nov 6, 2003.

  1. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

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    [brains, and for the love of god, please not your] TITS. :eek3:


    At the risk of repeating much of what is said on AR15.com, packing, highroad, etc, i'm going to compile a FAQ to sticky here as well as combine it with and organize the links thread. It'll be an ongoing thread, but i'd like to get at least a couple different people to contribute, even if we're all saying the same thing.

    So pitch in guys. :) Think of the questions noobs want to know a lot and how we often reply with the same or similar responses.

    -"What's a good first...?"
    -"Is this legal in my state?"
    -"Why is X better than Y?"
    -"How can i get a permit in...?"

    Submit a link, self written paragraph or two, whatever. Info that you feel we repeat a lot or would have liked to have been presented with when you were just learning about firearms.

    Why is 9mm better than .50AE? Why is a 5.56mm better than a 12ga? What makes an ideal CCW gun and why? Home defense gun? If you're only going to have one gun, which? How about two guns? (Try and keep the SHTF what-ifs to a practical minimum. i don't personally see society breaking down to an every man for himself point anytime within the next year, so let's run on that premise.)



    Post here. i may edit as needed if something is factually incorrect or repeated, but i'm not going to remove articulate opinions. ("Glock = teh :greddy:" won't cut it. :fawk: )
     
  2. mrbill

    mrbill New Member

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    What's a good home defense gun?

    IMO- a shotgun is the best home defense gun. Although most breakins occur during the day(when most pll aren't home). Chances are, if you need to defend your home it will either be at night or early in the morning. These two times are notorious for people being tired. This means you are less likely to hit the person with a single projectile than with several(I won't mention the stress factor since that is a given). While not a panacea(sp?) or even guarunteed to hit/kill the intruder, a shotgun affords you a greater chance of impact. As a rule, shotguns also deliver greater engergy on target than pistol rounds(which give you a better chance at a "one shot stop"). There is also the issue of over penetration. A shotgun(unless you're using slugs) generally won't over penetrate(ie- go through walls) to the extent that a rifle or pistol will, which is a concern for everyone(especially apartment dwellers). While there are exceptions and varied opinions to each of my points, I feel that for a home defense gun(especially for a beginner), a shotgun is the best choice.
     
  3. mrbill

    mrbill New Member

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    How can I get a CCW permit in.......?

    check out

    http://www.packing.org/states.jsp

    and pick your state. Or, go to your local gun store and ask them. Chances are, they will be happy to help you out. Good luck.
     
  4. mrbill

    mrbill New Member

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    What is a "Cruffle"(Curio and Relic Federal Firearms License) and how can I get one?

    Click here
     
  5. mrbill

    mrbill New Member

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    Is______ legal in my state?

    The best way to find out is to talk to your local or state law enforcement agency. While we can point you to many websites that list statutes, chances are your local/state police will know of any updates/changes or what have you that may not be listed on websites.
     
  6. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    i'm not going to start the argument in here for an AR as a home defense weapon. but, i will ask that my paper on 5.56 NATO be kept alive in whatever sticky comes out of this. it does a good job at explaining the terminal ballistics of the 5.56 NATO, but doesn't compare it to the terminal ballistics of 00 buckshot. i can type that comparison up again if need be.
     
  7. Platinum_Thunder

    Platinum_Thunder Reliability for life and liberty

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    Q: What 9mm is the best?


    A: Walther P99 :slap:

    :o
     
  8. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

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    Absolutely, that's exactly the sort of post i'm looking for. Feel free to submit whatever you think should be included in a FAQ.
     
  9. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

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    Why? :OP:
     
  10. Platinum_Thunder

    Platinum_Thunder Reliability for life and liberty

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    because I said so...

    I am going to pick up a Sig 239 too :naughty:
     
  11. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    copied directly from another post of mine in the "i've found the setup i want" thread:


    on the topic of the best home defense weapon, you've just started something that may take over this thread.

    it is MISTAKENLY believed by many that a shotgun, usually with 00 buck, is the best tool for home defense. this is not the case when an AR is utilized with M193 ammunition. not only does the 55 grain round perform better in terminal ballistics than 00 buckshot, it does not have the over penetration problems that 00 buck does.

    it is a proven fact that if you miss, 00 buck will carry through interior walls, and most likely exterior walls and possibly into other houses. this puts not only other members of your family at risk, but also families in the houses next door. the M193, and the M855 to an extent, yaw and fragment so well upon impact with normal wall construction (two pieces of sheetrock with about 4" of air betwixt them) that there is virtually no chance of the round going more than a few feet into the next room, and certainly not through another wall. no pistol round considered adequate for defense will show ballistic properties like this either, as they will all penetrate several walls.

    in addition, an AR has less recoil, and larger capacity, rendering that side saddle for your shotgun useless. you can equip an AR with a light just as with a shotgun or pistol. you can even have a flash hider, which is something you won't find on a shotgun or pistol, and is something that would be usefull in a low-light situation to save your night vision. as i'm sure you're aware, burglars and other intruders often use low-light situations as cover to break into your house.

    terminal ballistics: 00 buck is only going to spread its 8 or 9 pellets (depending on the load) an average of 1" for every 1-2 yards it travels out of an 18" barrel. that means that at 21 feet, you're going to have a maximum 7" spread, and a minimum of 3.5". at 21 feet, there's a pretty good chance that you could pull the shot and have part of that spread miss the target entirely. which would put part of your 00 buck in a non-center mass region of the target's body, and the other part in your neighbor's house. then you've got the actual terminal ballistics of 00 buck, which aren't good. it just punches holes. no yawing, no large permanent wound cavity, just a maximum of 9 little holes right through the target. with M193, you get one big hole. one big permanent wound cavity. and with the low recoil and fact that you don't have to pump it, you can use your AR many times in the time that it takes you to fire one 00 buck round, even from a semi-auto shotgun.

    if you miss with a shotgun or a pistol, you'll miss with an AR, and vice versa. but with a shotgun or pistol, you'll end up with your extraneous rounds in the other end of your house, or quite possibly in your neighbor's house, or worse yet, in someone other than the target. with an AR, it's a possibility one room over, but no more than one room. combine that with the vastly better terminal ballistics, the increased rate of controlled fire, and the ability to mount the same lights as on shotguns, better lights than pistols, and foregrips that neither can use, and you've got yourself the best home defense weapon.


    i'd also like to add to that that if you choose to use birdshot or another size shot smaller than 00 buck, you're not going to the penetration you need for defense. in addition, the lighter shot will spread faster, and might put a great deal of it off target just because it spreads too far, too fast. even if it does all hit, you've now got a bunch of tiny little pellets that won't do very much at all to a human in the way of a permanent wound cavity. slugs will certainly do some damage, but you still have to contend with the fact that they're muc going to overpenetrate more than 5.56 will, since it doesn't overpenetrate at all. if you miss, you're in for some fun trying to patch up the huge holes slugs make in walls as they pass through the entire house. and, since you're shooting slugs, the recoil is going to be huge. your recovery shots will suck, and you've now got a greater chance of missing with a round that has no spread to it at all. i'd say slugs are less effective than buck for that reason. buck will do about the same amount of damage, but has a greater chance to hit. it also has a greater chance to miss in a way, since you could get the center of the spread on target and still have the edge of the spread off the target, where a slug would be in the center, and have no spread to miss. if you're using a pump, you have to pump it. if you're using a semi, you still have to recover after the shot. either way, you get only a tiny number of rounds in comparison to a 30 rd. mag in the AR. all 30 of those rounds are more effective than 00 buck, and less dangerous to other people aside from the target.

    the easiest way to avoid all this, and still have the most effectively incapacitating round is to put together a good AR with a good light system.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2003
  12. Platinum_Thunder

    Platinum_Thunder Reliability for life and liberty

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    Which Walther P99 should I buy?

    All 9mm are 100% German. The only problems I have heard of with a Walther P99 happen with the .40

    If your P99 has the "eagle over N" proof mark on the slide (right-rear, immediately behind the serrations), barrel (right flat of the barrel hood), and frame (right-front, under the accessory rail, and immediately to the left of the two-letter date code), then it is 100% German-made. The "MADE IN GERMANY" on the frame merely indicates that the frame was made in Germany.

    Here are the markings
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    it's still assembled in the US.
     
  14. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    or, you could just ask me.
     
  15. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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  16. Rache

    Rache Guest

    I love footratfunkface's comments about the AR for home defense, and he makes a lot of good points. I think the AR is an excellent weapon, and I own one. It's a fine weapon and great for home defense, especially large homes with big rooms. that said...

    I use a shotgun in my condo. I load it with #6 1/2 shot, which should not penetrate walls. it will penetrate a target, enough anyway, and I have a side saddle loaded with slugs and 00 buck just in case, but that should never really be neccessary.

    Considering distance, the average gunfight takes place in less than 7 feet (about 2 yards). My home, at the largest opening, about 14 feet, which still puts my target at close range. Once the target is outside my house, I doubt I'll be able to take a shot at him, so I'll ignore any further distances (I live in CA. We can't shoot anyone unless they're going to kill someone).

    If the shotgun hits, it's going to put a gaping wound in the person...or a lot of small holes. Either way, it's just as effective as a 223 round.

    capacity shouldn't be an issue. Chances are the amount of rounds you have in a shotgun will be enough. Keep in mind it's home defense, not home offense. When he leaves your home, it's over. Once the bastard is on the run, pursuing isn't really an issue. Just wait for him to show up at a hospital.
     

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