GUN Searched, couldn't find it - thread w/ pics of gun safe after fire?

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by JaimeZX, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    I'm in the market for a safe now and I remember seeing a thread (or link?) a while back of a guy whose safe didn't really protect anything when he had a fire.

    Anyone know what I'm talking about?

    Meanwhile, I'm checking out Cannon's Safari "Dangerous Game" series
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    LOL holy crap those are big pics. :rofl:

    Note: the interior shot is of the Serengeti series, which is a step down and the door is 3/4" thinner.

    or Sportsman Steel's "Arsenal" series.

    [​IMG][​IMG]


    The Cannon website has more specific numbers on the fire protection of their safes, even though the SpSt site has a big page devoted to how important fire protection is....
    I've mailed them both requesting more info.

    The Dangerous Game safe is fully $700 more than the SpSt safe of similar size; and I know in safes you get what you pay for... right?
    :hs: :dunno:
    The DG safe says it's good for 90 minutes @ 1200 degrees; the SpSt safe says "75 minutes of fire protection."

    I mailed both companies asking for further information on their product. :o


    So. Anyone know about that one thread with the burned safe? :p
     
  2. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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    You want a safe over 1200degree rating 1800 is your best bet
     
  3. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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    A decent one that will protect against fires around a 1k
     
  4. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    Both websites of the safes I mentioned above say a typical housefire will run around 1200 degrees for 20-45 minutes. (On average.)

    Hence my desire for a 60 minute safe, at least. :hs:
     
  5. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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    But thats on average, also it doesnt list at what tempature the safe will get inside.

    Look at patriot safes my friend has one and the thing is rock solid. Its the safe im getting
     
  6. sprite

    sprite Active Member

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    FYI Pentagon has a pretty shitty reputation, at least on the CS end... I don't know much about the quality of their products.
     
  7. kf4zht

    kf4zht New Member

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    House fires do get hot, trust me I have been in a few. All the time we are asked to recover guns, files, and any number of things out of safes, fire boxes and filing cabinets.

    Amazingly commercial file cabinets protect contents fairly well, and depending on the safe and location most safes can also. The biggest things that affect survival of the contents (at least that I have found) is location and waterproofing.

    Consider that in a fully involved structure fire we can use 5-6 tankers carrying between 1500-2500 gallons of water. Thats alot of water and if a safe is not very well sealed water can get inside. The water itself is not that bad for firearms, but with the heat that can build up in the safe it will steam anything inside.

    Location is also inportant, ideally things will survive better if they are near an outside wall, ones that are in the center of the struture have all the buring material collapse around them, and are hotter longer. Also they are harder to retrieve. Next to a concrete wall (such as a basement) is a really bad idea. Garages are decent, as long as the car inside doest catch, and exterior walls. The other advantage is that you can inform the fire dept that you have a safe in that area and depening on what is going on they can help to protect that area better. Also when they reach the salvage stage they can easily access it to retrive any valueables.
     
  8. dano

    dano OT Supporter

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    :cool:
     
  9. mtnbike4522

    mtnbike4522 CelicaTech.com

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    when i build my next house im gonna put a fire sprinkler system in.
     
  10. Golfer

    Golfer OT Supporter

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    i saw you just bury them in your backyard. Problem solved.
     
  11. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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    kf4zht

    That is the truth. If it is balloon frame or heavy timber you might need more water. We used at least 1/4 million gallons on a heavy timber house that refused to go out once the structural members started going. It was 90+ that day with high humidity. We still salvaged items from there.
     
  12. kf4zht

    kf4zht New Member

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    Good idea, they will save you quite a bit on insurance and they work quite well.

    Minus is right, if it is an old fatlighter house or heavy timber you better bet it is going to take a long time and burn hot. The city department had one just last week, it took 4 hours to fight and they had to call in the county to help.

    We have recovered somethings that made no sense. In one of our last structures the entire living room burned up, and one of the bedrooms. When we were cleaning up (overhaul) the living room we found a wooden toy chest that had fallen through the floor. Despite being in the hottest part of the fire, the chest had survived with all the stuff inside untouched.
     
  13. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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  14. dpixel8

    dpixel8 New Member

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    get a cheap one. spend the rest of the money on cinder blocks and build yourself a safe room in your basement (or better yet, cut the slab, dig down 9 feet and build an underground/house safe-room. that's my plan with/when we build our new house :cool:
     
  15. mtnbike4522

    mtnbike4522 CelicaTech.com

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    they are spendy to put in. was going to be about $10k to put one into my current house. But i was too far along in the building process to get the system approved.

    but on the plus side of them. if a fire ever does break out, your going to have one room with slight fire, and water damage. as opposed to waiting for the FD to show up and soak the entire house in water, and the added fire and smoke damage.
     
  16. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    Actually, Cannon (Safari) website lists their methodology. They say they use the biggest safe in a series because it has the most surface area so it should heat the fastest, then they put a bunch of thermometers inside and then crank on the heat. They stop timing when the top shelf hits 350 degrees.

    I'll keep that in mind.

    Okay, I'll keep that in mind too. What is CS? The Pentagon (Sportsman Steel) website says that none of their safes have been broken into in 30 years, and all of their safes have 1 1/2" locking lugs instead of 1" like a lot of companies. The Cannon Traditional/Dangerous Game safes have 1.5" lugs; the Cannon/Sarengeti safes have 1" lugs.

    Most of these gun safes say they have seals that expand when they get hot, thus sealing out the water & hot air. What is your experience with these seals? Do they seem effective? I guess they'd need time to expand; probably if a room caught fire but hadn't gotten too hot yet before you threw water on it, the safe contents could be fooked, eh? :sad2:

    Makes sense.
    Why is a concrete wall a bad idea? What if it's a ground floor, exterior concrete wall?
    :cool: Thanks for your inputs.
     
  17. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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  18. kf4zht

    kf4zht New Member

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    The seals work to a certain extent. Generally if the fire starts in the room with the safe it doesn;t matter what it is if the fire gets to the fully involved state. Safes in the other rooms are the ones that survive, and that is where the seals are the most important.

    That is the one drawback to putting a safe in a garage, if the car catches (car fires are very hot) the safe probably won't make it. Where a safe really saves your ass is in a room that received minor to moderate burn damage (or where only the contents burned) but a whole lot of smoke damage.

    Think of it this way, brick is used to funnel the heat in a fireplace. Concrete also has the same heat insulating principles, if the fire is in front of the safe the concrete will reflect it back into the safe. Compound if the roof collapses in on the wall area and you have an oven. Those are the spots we spend hours cooling down during overhaul.

    Wood will burn though and give the heat a means of escape, along with being easier to pull off of the safe. Now if it is an all concrete room with a sealed door, then you are fine, there is nothing to burn and it adds another layer of protection from the heat.

    That being said, a fire could destroy a whole room and the safe be untouched. House fires do some strange things.
     
  19. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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    That they do. We had an electrical fire which was a can and hook job after the power was shut off that charged the whole house with smoke and damaged everything.

    I believe it was an overheated box/outlet/switch. Nothing major.
     
  20. JaimeZX

    JaimeZX Formerly of :Sep 2001: fame - Also: Sprout Crew OT Supporter

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    I see; thanks guys.
     

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