GUN s&w or sig 1911's

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by nkudahc, Mar 20, 2009.

  1. nkudahc

    nkudahc New Member

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    So in all the 1911 threads I don't think I have ever seen anyone mention Smith&Wesson or Sig. When it comes to 1911's are they not even worth looking at?
     
  2. For all the really great 1911s out there, I really don't know why someone would buy one from a manufacturer that really just decided to hop on the bandwagon one day.
     
  3. nkudahc

    nkudahc New Member

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    That brings up another question, why did S&W go with an external extractor when most of the others I look at have an internal?
     
  4. nkudahc

    nkudahc New Member

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    Well I'm certainly not up on gun history but wouldn't that be what most manufactures besides the original have done? Some just sooner than others?
     
  5. I'm talking about companies like STI, SVI, Wilson, Baer, Springfield, DW, and I'm sure a few more that I can't remember off the top of my head. These guys are known for the 1911s, that's what they do. A company like Sig or S&W isn't really a 1911 maker any more than they just happen to offer a 1911. I mean, if you really like Sig, I could see wanting a Sig 1911, but I think one's money would be better spent on another maker.
     
  6. nkudahc

    nkudahc New Member

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    Oh ok, I see what you're saying. And I'm not in the market for one or anything but I see them at the shop all the time and the look decent enough to me so I have just been wondering how come they never get mentioned in any of the 1911 threads here.

    So what about that external extractor, how did they come originally? Is there an advantage to internal vs. external?
     
  7. I think you don't hear about them in here because they probably don't sell in large numbers. I'm sure they're decent guns, the issue is that people in the market for a 1911 usually go for one of the established brands.

    The original extractors were the internal ones. I really don't see the benefit to an external extractor.
     
  8. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    S&W may not be very well known for their 1911's, but they are not entirely new to the 1911 game. Their earlier Semi's dominated the LEO field back in the day (Late 80's, early 90's) and were rock solid performers all got their inspiration from the 1911 platform, minus the thumb safety. Which is why they've always attracted me.

    Making an external extractor is not new, but getting one to actually "run" in a 1911 is no small feat. And Doug Koenig, is certainly not a new kid on the block. He's not only an accomplished smith, but shooter for team S&W.

    My friend Bobby who is sponsored to shoot for S&W runs a Doug Koenig S&W 1911 and it's been a rock solid performer and has won it's share of titles.

    Sig on the other hand, I know nothing about nor is there anything that they offer that peaks my interest. All I hear is bad things about them and a ton of guys looking to unload them for cheap.

    As MG says, there are too many other "known" manufacturers out there that "knows" the design.
     
  9. nkudahc

    nkudahc New Member

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    Great info. So if it is such a pain in the ass to get an external extractor to work why would S&W even mess with it over the internal?
     
  10. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    Simply because they can, and can do it well. I avoid them because lack of aftermarket products/availability. Most external extractors you can only get replacement from the OEM. With an internal, you can get it from most any aftermarket supplier. Which for me means I can likely ask any of my squad mates for a spare extractor and not have a problem finding one at any big match and swap it out myself.

    External extractors as a whole is not a bad thing, plenty of nice shooting auto's with great external extractor systems from manufacturers that have figured it out like S&W, Wilson, Caspian, etc.

    The whole "avoid external extractors like the plague" in regards to the 1911 came shortly after Kimer thought they could fix what wasn't broken and released their new Series 2 line up with External extractors, amongst other stupid things like going S80.

    Actually they were trying to make their guns "Cali friendly" which, after SEVERAL revisions to the external extractor design, they still failed at making approval.

    So after some egg on their face, and many unhappy Kimber loyalist, they reverted back to the internal design. Which is why they are willing to take a hit and replace any Kimber external extractor slide free of charge.

    Bear in mind, there are plenty of Kimber owners with external extractors with perfectly working guns for various reasons. As always, your mileage may vary.
     
  11. phrozenlikwid

    phrozenlikwid New Member

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    I always heard the S&W 1911's were pretty decent actually....

    If you know someone with first responder credentials, you can pick one up pretty cheap.
     
  12. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

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    S&W gunsite edition is sexy as fuck.
     
  13. nkudahc

    nkudahc New Member

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    I agree, the gun shop close to here has some s&w 1911's in the 800$ range but I'm not sure what models they are.

    I might buy a 1911 some day but I think the next handgun I buy will be a small revolver. Will probably have to go with s&w for sure on that one.
     
  14. nkudahc

    nkudahc New Member

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    So are competition shooters that run 1911's at a disadvantage because of magazine size or do they put them in a class by themselves?
     
  15. In IDPA they run pretty pretty much only against other 1911s in CDP. In USPSA you've got Single Stack which is 1911 only and Limited-10 where 1911s are extremely competitive.
     
  16. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    More has to do with the shooter than anything. And most of the guys that run 1911's around here can shoot and are not disadvantaged at all.

    In IDPA 1911's chambered in .45 can only shoot in Custom Defensive Pistol, but we are not alone. We shoot against XD's, Glocks and M&P's also chambered in .45 (but are downloaded to 8 rounds in the mag), so it isn't always apples to apples. It'll always be easier reloading with a double stack.

    In IPSC you can run them in Single Stack division, which is a division specific to 1911's ONLY, chambered in .40 and up in Major, or 9mm for Minor. The brave run them in L10 (even braver still, in Limited) where they go up against all of the guys with double stack magazines. Made me a better shooter shooting it most all of last year.
     
  17. Speaking of being brave (or stupid) I was thinking of running my G29 with the .40 barrel in Limited on sunday.
     
  18. nkudahc

    nkudahc New Member

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    So guys with 8 round magazines can go up against guys with 17+ round mags and still be competitive? That's pretty impressive.
     
  19. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    Do it! , you have CR speed pouches rite?
     
  20. AB13

    AB13 New Member

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    yeah, the president of one of our clubs runs a stock Colt with the 8 shot mags in Limited and kicks ass. He's usually in the top 5, and it was a good day for me when I can beat him.
     
  21. Yeah. But the Safariland 012 won't take the Glock. I figure I'll just use my OWB holster and the dual mag pouch I have for the 10mm mags. It'll give me 45 rounds total. That should get me through any stage. It'll just look like I'm shooting Production.
     
  22. dpixel8

    dpixel8 New Member

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    wat. moar
     
  23. phrozenlikwid

    phrozenlikwid New Member

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    S&W offers (or did, at least) a discount for first responders. Find a dealer that does it (Buds does I think) and reap the rewards. It's pretty decent. Glock does the same, and some other brands do.

    All is dealer dependent, of course.
     
  24. dpixel8

    dpixel8 New Member

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    as in a CLEO who you happen to be friends with, or another on the force? Or are they unable to purchase for themselves and re-sell to someone?
     
  25. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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