Rogaine...any users?

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Lick Harrass, Jul 17, 2005.

  1. Lick Harrass

    Lick Harrass New Member

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    I want to get serious answers, and none of the BS that comes with the OT forum. I wanted to know if anyone here has used minoxidil 5% (rogaine), propecia, or a combination of both and how effective each or both were for you guys.

    if you could, also post your age and roughly how much hair you had before and after use in terms of a % or some other descriptive way.

    Thanks :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2005
  2. StopDrop&LOL

    StopDrop&LOL "Where The Elite Become Champions"

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    Good question, id like to know the answer to that...my hairs starting to receit (s?)
     
  3. armond

    armond New Member

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    recede

    I am not sure where this thread is supposed to be?!
     
  4. ProneToEpisodes

    ProneToEpisodes New Member

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    I worked at a salon and rogaine was a pretty popular product. How old are you? My bf (26) heard that if you have your head rubbed it will help hair growth. Im not sure if thats his way of getting me to rub his head or if it really works. :dunno:
     
  5. ProneToEpisodes

    ProneToEpisodes New Member

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    BTW hes on OT
     
  6. Lick Harrass

    Lick Harrass New Member

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    well, I'm not bald by any means, though I am noticing more hairs on my hands when I wash, and my hairline is slightly receding. I'm 21, btw.
     
  7. themacstallion

    themacstallion The electric sheep are dreaming up your fate

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    You're right, this doesn't belong here. :nono:
     
  8. ProneToEpisodes

    ProneToEpisodes New Member

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    Why not? If he goes in the main forum he'll have a bunch of jerks giving him stupid answers. Most people in the Vag will give a realistic opinion.
     
  9. themacstallion

    themacstallion The electric sheep are dreaming up your fate

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    Yes, but this is a sex forum. Not just a "serious forum", if I made a post about how the weather is in costa rica AND I wanted only serious answers would it be appropriate to post in the Vag? No, I would have to suck it up and take any replies that came because the Vag just isn't the place for it. Sorry to sound like a nazi.
     
  10. MiseryIndex

    MiseryIndex i never know why. i only know who. Moderator

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    this is as close to a health forum as it gets. f&n would be as mean as OT. here is fine.
     
  11. ProneToEpisodes

    ProneToEpisodes New Member

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    Kèk Vihar vbmenu my bfs name is Intellex Im sure he will have some suggestions for you or know someone on here who can help
     
  12. Lick Harrass

    Lick Harrass New Member

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    I never said this didn't belong here, I said I didnt know if it did.

    Anyhow, I posted in here to get away from the people like you, who would not be helpful at all. If you dont like it, go tell Fazle.
     
  13. Minh Lam

    Minh Lam Active Member

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    No one has to put up with hairloss. One day there will be a cure but the treatment now is cheap as. But first you gotta understand what causes hairloss first or why your hair sheds. I will post up both....
     
  14. Minh Lam

    Minh Lam Active Member

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    Taken from another forum

    Hair Loss Prevention
    About 50% of the human male population are genetically susceptible to Alopecia Androgenetica, also known as Male Pattern Baldness. Although the exact causes of male baldness are still unknown, most knowledgeable in this area would agree that strong androgenic substances like DHT and testosterone play a large part. If you are prone to MPB and are concerned about keeping your hair, then read on. There are some products that when used alone or especially in combination, can be very effective in halting or even reversing male hair loss.

    First, let's take a look at what is known about the causes of MPB. Testosterone is converted to DHT by the 5AR enzyme, which in turn finds its way to your hair follicles and causes them to fall out. The are a few theories on how this occurs. One suggests that DHT causes a progressive miniturization of the affected hair follicles. Another says that DHT causes an autoimmune response, causing the body to actually attack the hair follicles as if they were a foreign body. This in turn causes an inflammatory response that causes the hair follicles to shed.

    Either way, its a frustrating problem. A problem that can become greatly accelerated by the use of androgenic drugs, especially those with a high conversion rate to DHT. Testosterone, Anadrol, D-Bol...all of these end up increasing the amounts of DHT in your system. Some, like test, convert through the 5AR enzyme. Anadrol, on the other hand, is not converted to DHT through the 5AR method at all. 1-testosterone can also convert 'back' to DHT though the infamous 'unknown pathway'...in any event higher levels of DHT end up at the scalp when you're using these substances. And, if you're prone, this could spell rapid accelleration of genetic hair loss.

    Any androgenic hormone molecule binding to the receptors in your scalp could advance hair-loss in someone prone to MPB. When using steroids, especially those with strong receptor binding characteristics like 1-test or Trenbalone, the actual steroid itself could be a contributing factor to your hair loss, in addition to any elevated levels of DHT in your system.

    So now we know that we need to prevent high amounts of androgen molecules from affecting hair follicles at the scalp. This could be done by using oral medication, like:

    finasteride

    For people suffering from natural hair loss or hair loss brought on by testosterone supplementation, this could work very well. Finasteride is a 5AR blocker, and prevents testosterone from converting into DHT. Finasteride is a potent 5AR inhibitor that is also NOT an anti-androgen, so it dosent affect levels of testosterone in the body. Men taking 5mg of Finasteride a day showed a 65% - 80% reduction in the amount of DHT present in their system. This sounds great, but also keep in mind that DHT is a big player in the strength gains that one sees on a cycle of testosterone. Or the strength that you have naturally. Think of pure DHT compounds like 3-alpha, M5, etc and the awesome strength gains that accompany them - obviously some DHT in your body is a good thing if you're going to be hitting the iron. Also consider that Finasteride only reduces the amount of DHT - it wont help inhibit hair loss from any other androgenic hormone molecules that have found their way to your scalp.

    Personally, Ive never used Finasteride so I cannot personally recommend it. Ive read reports of several bros on this board who have, and claim it works well. So, if you're experiencing a lot of natural hair loss or are on a cycle of Testosterone, then it might be worth a try. My view is that I'd rather minimize the amount of chemcials interacting with the hormonal systems in my body, especially if they could negatively affect strength.

    Also, Finasteride should never be used with Deca-Durabolin. It can actually promote hair loss in this situation.

    Which brings us to the next weapon in the hair loss prevention arsenal:

    The Topical, Non-Systemic Solution

    Anti-Androgens

    There are a few chemicals out there which have been shown to inhibit androgen and DHT molecules at the scalp itself, without showing any systemic side effects. These are:

    Spironolactone

    Spironolactone was originally used as a "Potassium Sparing Diuretic", that has been used for many years to treat high blood pressure and fluid retention. Recently, it has also been used orally as an anti-androgen (it blocks the androgen receptor itself).
    For hair loss prevention purposes, it has been found that a solution of Spiro in a 2-5% concentration can effectively block androgens (both DHT and others) from effecting the hair follicles at the scalp when applied topically. You can read more detailed info about some other uses of Spironolactone here:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/cataldactone.htm

    Azelaic Acid
    Used as an acne medication, azelaic acid also has one important property when applied to the scalp:
    It inhibits DHT up to 100% at the area of application Taking all of the above information into consideration, its obvious why we would want this as part of a hair-loss prevention system.

    Read more about Azelaic Acid here:

    https://www.xandrox.com/azelaic.htm

    Nizoral Shampoo (2% Ketoconazole)
    When used EOD, Nizoral shampoo can help block the formation of DHT in the scalp. A special version of Nizoral shampoo , 'Regrowth Treatment Shampoo', is available that contains 3% salicylic acid . The salicylic acid helps strip dead layers off the epidermis from the scalp, resulting in greater absorption of the 2% Ketoconazole.

    Fluridil (Eucapil)
    I haven't learned much about this one yet. Thanks to LCSCULLA for bringing it to my attention. Supposedly has a longer half-life than Spiro. Cost might be prohibitive to some, but if it works as claimed it would be very valuable to those trying to save their hair. Also a general anti-androgen.

    Read up on Fluridil here:

    http://www.regrowth.com/hair_loss_t...il/fluridil.cfm

    Ok, now we've covered treatments that can successfully block androgens and DHT at the scalp. For some, using these products alone might be enought to reverse MPB, prevent it during a cycle, etc. For those that want to help expedite their hair regrowth, keep reading:

    Hair Growth Stimulants

    After blocking androgens from affecting hair follicles, the next step is to attempt to promote hair regrowth.

    Minoxidil

    That's right, good ol' Rogaine. Well, the active ingredient in Rogaine, anyway. It was originally used as a high-blood pressure medication and vaso-dialator. Someone discovered that it increased hair growth on various parts of the body when taken in high enough concentrations orally. I guess from there they tried applying it to the scalp. Id love to be able to tell you exactly how Minoxidil works to regrow hair, but no one knows. Knowing that it works and has no systemic side effects is enough for now.

    Retin-A

    Retin-A, or Retonic Acid, can be used in combination with Minoxidil for a synergistic effect. Studies have shown that combined with minoxidil treatments it will regrow more hair faster than with minoxidil alone. It may increase the absorption of Minoxidil through the skin, it also may have some hair regenerative properties. Again, not much is known about its method of action, only that it has positive results.

    The Hair Loss Prevention Stack

    So if you're truly worried about losing your hair, you have to take action as soon as possible. In this case especially, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If you're got some very mild thinning or if you're not that suseptable to androgenic hair loss, then Nizoral Shampoo EOD might be enough to stave off hair loss.

    For others that are sure they're going to lose their hair, its best to attack the problem from all feasible angles as soon as possible. For this, there is what I like to call the Hair Loss Prevention Stack. This is:

    Regrowth Treatment Shampoo
    Used once EOD.
    Squeeze a quarter sized amount into your hand, and shampoo your hair. Message it thourougly into your scalp, and leave in for about 5 minutes before rinsing. This shampoo dries your hair out, so its best to follow application with a good conditioner.

    Minoxidil 5%/Azelaic Acid 5%/Retin-A 2% Solution
    Applied ED, at night before bed. Sunlight breaks down Retin-A and can cause it to irritate the scalp, so its really only to be used at night time. Apply 1ml to the affected areas of the scalp and message into the skin. If your hair loss in generalized, part your hair in several areas and apply the solution directly to the skin. Message into the skin.

    Minoxidil 5%/Azelaic Acid 5% Solution
    Minoxidil/Azelaic Acid is meant to be applied 2x daily. You should use the Minoxidil w/Retin-A at night, and a solution containing Minoxidil and Azelaic Acid during the day. Try to keep the applications close to 12hrs apart if you can. Apply to the scalp following the same method as outlined above.

    Spironolactone 2% Solution
    Applied once ED, at night, AFTER application of Minoxidil/Azelaic Acid/Retin-A solution. Allow the minoxidil to dry for a minute or two and follow with Spiro.
    Apply to the skin and message in thoroughly. If you're using androgens, apply Spiro 2x per day. This will block any other androgens in the scalp, as well as DHT. Combined with the Azelaic Acid, its a 1-2 punch for androgen molecules in the scalp.

    The above products, when used in combination in a consistent daily regimen, have restored my thinning head of hair to a decently thick mane in the past 11 months. In fact, even on 200mg/1-test a day Ive had no shedding whatsoever.

    There are stronger concentrations of Minoxidil and Spiro solutions for those that arent responding to the 2% and 5% stuff. Always start with the lower dose, however.

    For those that are experiencing severe hair loss or just want to cover ALL the bases, using oral Finasteride will also add to the efficacy of this stack.

    A Note On Minoxidil Use
    Of course, there is a drawback with using Minoxidil to regrow your hair. You'll have to use it daily, forever. Its been shown that a few months after Minoxidil use has ceased, any hair regrown with it will start to shed. If your going to lose your hair anyway to genetic MPB, its a small trade off. 5 minutes 2x a day and there's a good chance youll keep your hair, or at the very minimum slow down the inevitable.

    In addition, in a small number of users, Minoxidil can cause some slight hair shedding when it is first applied. This is usually very minor and is actually a good indicator that Minoxidil is working for you. The hair that is shed eventually will grow back thicker, having been stimulated by the Minoxidil.

    A Final Note on Application
    Some complain that these products can make the hair look greasy. I find that if I lightly towel-dry my hair, (not the scalp), my hair looks completely dry as if nothing were applied.

    Where Do I Get This Stuff?

    There are few places to get there products on the web, at decent prices. Ive had very good experience with www.minoxidil.com. In order to order from the site, you have to have an email consultation with Dr.Lee (the Dr. who runs the site and has developed the treatment methods). Its really a no-hassle deal and you'll be able to order within a week or so. They have the biggest selection and its the only place to get the Regrowth Treatment Shampoo. However, their Xandrox products, while excellent quality, are a bit on the expensive side.

    www.customnutritionwarehouse.com also carries 5% Spiro, 5% Minoxidil, and 5% Azelaic Acid Solutions. Great prices, great service, and an Anabolicminds.com board sponsor. Definately support Custom whenever you can!

    www.wholesalehairproducts.com
    This is where I originally got all my hair care stuff. They were shut down after their owner passed away (RIP) and had some service issues. I havent ordered from them in a while, but it looks like their webiste is back up, and has been completely redesigned. Ive had many succesful transactions with this company. Great prices...definately worth a look.

    Hope that helped!
     
  15. Minh Lam

    Minh Lam Active Member

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    And for people who arent balding but think they are. Shedding hair is normal too

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What is shedding and why does it happen after using a hair loss product or treatment?
    [/font]
    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]This is one of the most commonly asked hair loss question and without doubt the most perplexing for the hair loss sufferer. Why does using a product that is supposed to grow hair actually cause more hair loss? To understand this question you have to understand how hair grows. [/size][/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Hair grows in a cycle that consists of three phases: Anagen, Catagen and Telogen[/size][/font]



    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1][​IMG]Anagen - This is the growth phase that lasts between two and eight years. During the anagen phase the growth cells in the papilla rapidly divide and produce the hair shaft which becomes keratinized as it pushes up and out of the hair follicle into the pore. At the same time, the hair follicle grows down into the deeper levels of the dermis (skin) to get nourishment. [/size][/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1][​IMG]Catagen - The Anagen phase is followed by a brief two to four week Catagen phase or transitional phase. This is part of a renewal process where the hair follicle is literally degraded and the hair stops growing but does not fall out. During the Catagen phase the hair follicle shrinks to about 1/6 of the normal length. The lower part is destroyed, the dermal papilla breaks away, the bulb detaches from the blood supply and the hair shaft eventually is pushed up as the hair follicle disintegrates. [/size][/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Telogen - The hair follicle then goes into the Telogen or resting phase for two to four months, during this time the hair still does not grow but remains attached to the hair follicle while the dermal papilla is in a resting phase below. Approximately 10-15 percent of all hairs are in this phase at any one time.[/size][/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1][​IMG]After the Telogen phase the cycle is complete and the hair goes back into the Anagen phase. It is at this time when the new hair shaft is forming that the old hair is pushed out and lost. So when you start using a product like Rogaine or Propecia you stimulate the hair follicle to start producing hair. What often happens is that many hair follicles that are in the Telogen phase then go into the growth phase. [/size][/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]When the hair follicle starts growing a new hair it has to first get rid of the old hair, which is still attached to the hair follicle. When this happens to many hair follicles at the same time you see a lot of hair falling out which is what causes shedding. So instead of these hairs falling out gradually at different times, they all fall out together giving you the impression that you are losing more hair. [/size][/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]The reality is that this hair had stopped growing and was due to fall out anyway. So shedding is a positive sign and means that you are responding well to treatment. In fact its ironic that people who respond the best to treatments often lose the most hair in the beginning. This often leads to people going off their treatment program when they should stay on it. [/size][/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Shedding should last no longer than 4-6 weeks and usually occurs about 6 weeks into a hair loss treatment program. If you are still shedding a lot of hair after 2 months you should consult with your physician, as it may not be a shed. Shedding can also reoccur periodically since hairs that were put into the growth cycle at the same time have a synchronized growth cycle so they tend to go into the resting phase at the same time. This tapers off after a while. However be aware that its normal to lose between 50-100 hairs every day due to this natural growth process.[/size][/font]

    [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Bottom line is that shedding is normal and usually is a sign of good things to come. However if you are experiencing any redness or intense itching or irritation consult with your physician. [/size][/font]
     
  16. Minh Lam

    Minh Lam Active Member

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    So basically DHT causes hairloss. What I suggest is start off on Nizoral and block the DHT. Use that 3 times a week atleast. Its gotta be on your hair for 5 minutes. Do that first when you are in the shower. This will give a chance to your hair to grow if you havent receded too much or the hair follicles have died out. Secondly use minoxidil. You dont have to use rogain as it is expensive. Just use a chemist brand that contains 5 percent. Thats the two I would stick too. Stuff like this works. If you go to a hair studio this is the stuff they dont tell you in detail as they want to put you on a money making stack that they charge and arm and a leg for.
     
  17. orangecuse

    orangecuse OT Supporter

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    Interesting. Have you experimented yourself with any of this or are you a doctor?


    I have done a little research on this a few months ago. I also found out that Saw Palmetto (sp?) reduces your DHT level. You can get it at your local Pharmacy I believe.
     
  18. Minh Lam

    Minh Lam Active Member

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    My dad is bald on top. But my grandfather has a full set of hair. So I dont want to go bald. I have a large ass forehead the day i was born so I guess I always been self concious and made and effort to do a bit of study. I have a friend who works in Ashley and Martin which is a hair studio for balding men. Plus i do abit of weight training and pretty much if you know what to ask and where to look I say this pretty much sums it all up about current treatment and the causes. Anything that stops DHT is good but try to stick to treatments that are topically applied because oral stuff does affect your libido and test levels and if you are training "could" reduce your results in the gym
     
  19. StopDrop&LOL

    StopDrop&LOL "Where The Elite Become Champions"

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    Umm saw palmetto can be taken orally and its used by a lot of bodybuilers actually. I dont think it reduces your results in the gym.
     
  20. Minh Lam

    Minh Lam Active Member

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    Is thats the case thats great news. Links?
     
  21. Coco Monkey

    Coco Monkey OT Supporter

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    ive been losing my hair for almost a year. this summer i just gave in and shaved it all off, going with the "Bruce Willis" look.

    Much better, less stress. I suggest that route.
     
  22. Minh Lam

    Minh Lam Active Member

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    Man for the amount of times I heard people shave your heads lol. I would be rich by now. remember not everybody suites a shaved head and as I said. treatment is cheap enough to use nowadays. It depends on the shape of your head. Some people look good and unfortunately others dont. Vin diesel is lucky hahaha
     
  23. Lick Harrass

    Lick Harrass New Member

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    anybody else have any experience with hair regrowth products?

    BTW, Excellent posts Minh Lam :) thanks for your input.
     
  24. DjSap

    DjSap New Member

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    I've been using rogaine for about 10 weeks now on my temples, having good results as new hairs are coming back (although they seem pretty light compared to the rest of my hair. I'm on propecia too but only about 6 weeks in so it's too early to tell. I'm 22 btw.

    My plan is to continue this indefinetly until something better comes along, if it's effects diminish their i'll probably get a hair transplant. But seeing as my hair loss is not noticable to others I should have good chances of maintaining what I have.

    So all in all i'm not too worried even though it would suck to be bald.
     
  25. AstroGirl

    AstroGirl If I don't respond it's because I have severe ADD

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    Her mosa? ITS MY MOSA!!!
    This guy I work with got a hair transplant. The shit was hillarious, it didn't look too bad, but after a while I think he had some sort of allergic reaction to it. As the day passed on he walks up behind he and says ___ does my head look swollen to you? I turned around and almost peed my pants! His head looked like he had a balloon tied to his neck, elephantitus even! OMG... Hahahahha
     

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