GUN Reloading help

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by gchang817, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. gchang817

    gchang817 DADDIO!!

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    I have been trying to upload a picture but my uploader is currently not working. The primer strike seems different then my factory ammo. I have been using federal and winchester, and they both look the same. The best way i can describe it is there is a little wave of primer material around the primer strike, but the strike is not that deep nor is it deformed, it is a perfect circle.
     
  2. mrbill

    mrbill New Member

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    if there aren't any other signs of too much pressure, i'd have to guess soft primers or primers not fully seated.
     
  3. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    Are you having failures to fire? If so, then are you seating your primers deep enough?
     
  4. gchang817

    gchang817 DADDIO!!

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    no failure to fires, the primers are pretty flat with the case. still trying to upload, nothing up with the cases. What are some other signs of high pressure?
     
  5. ChipOnShoulder

    ChipOnShoulder New Member

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    If there is no gap between the primer and the primer pocket that's bad too.

    Imagine that the primer is a soft and malleable component. If there is enough pressure, it's gonna get flattened against the bolt face... or in your case, the primer will flow around the firing pin
     
  6. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    So we can better understand what your trying to say letss work on your terminology so that you explain what your experiencing.

    Are you talking about reloading ammo??? (making ammo with a reloading press)
    • If your seating the primer using your press and the primer has a small indent on the surface afterwards it is because the primer seating rod is dirty. It can be something as simple as a speck of powder or carbon on the rod. It is strickly cosmetic and can be fixed by wiping down the rod that seats the primer with a patch soaked with a small amount of solvent. Typically this can look like half of the primer is bent or beveled. It can also look like semi circular marrs or imprefection on the primer surface. Again this is mostly cosmetic and perfectly safe to shooting
    Are you talking about your primers after you fire them in your gun???
    • If it looks like a raised crater around the firing pin strike this probably is "primer flow". It is one of the signs of over pressure. The primer is pretty much melting and it forms up around the tip of the firing pin/striker.
    • "Flattened primers" are pretty much the same thing but as the primer melts it flows out to the edges of the primer cavity. The seam where the primer meets case becomes less defined and the primer looks a little wavey and less dome shapped on the edges. More like a flattened disk on the edges. Compare it to a unfired primer and look at the primers edges, do they look way different.
    • "Flattened head stamp" are a major sign of over pressure. The stamping on the head of the case that says "winchester", "Federal" looks like it's been flattened and the stamping is less defined. The case is getting crushed up against the breech face and subjected to heat/pressure. Generally if your sorting brass for reloading you should look for this before you reload. You can also inspect your loaded brass. When I see something that looks suspect it goes in the "practice ammo bin". Never to be used for big match ammo. The case may already be weakened and then you run the risk of case head failures, or kB's (kaBOOM, where a section of the case ruptures usually at the 6:00 o'clock position)
     
  7. gchang817

    gchang817 DADDIO!!

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    [​IMG]

    this is after it is shot out of a glock 19
     
  8. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    yeah that's primer flow, primer flattening, and what maybe flattened head stamp. Your ammo is way over pressure.

    What is your load data? I'm thinking your either using the wrong powder, seating the bullet way too deep, or both.
     
  9. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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    looks like over pressure whats your load and oal?
     
  10. gchang817

    gchang817 DADDIO!!

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    it happened with just every load i did:

    All 9mm

    Bullet:124 grn Montana Gold CMJ
    Powder: 5.5 grn unique
    OAL: 1.135
    Primer: Federal SPP


    Bullet:124 grn Montana Gold CMJ
    Powder: 5.1 grn unique
    OAL: 1.14
    Primer: Federal SPP


    Bullet:115 grn Montana Gold CMJ
    Powder: 5.9 grn unique
    OAL: 1.14
    Primer: Federal SPP


    Bullet:115 grn Montana Gold CMJ
    Powder: 4.3 grn titegroup
    OAL: 1.135
    Primer: Federal SPP


    Bullet:124 grn Montana Gold CMJ
    Powder: 4.0 grn titegroup
    OAL: 1.142
    Primer: Winchester SPP
     
  11. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    Yeah your doing something wrong. Either your powder charge is off or your oal is way off. Check your scale and calipers.

    Looking at your titegroup data you should not have any issues
     
  12. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

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    what are you using for measuring powder throws?
     
  13. sprite

    sprite Active Member

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    Are you crimping the fuck out of it?
     
  14. gchang817

    gchang817 DADDIO!!

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    i am using an electronic scale i picked up off brian enos, no name brand. seen other people reccomend before. i may pick up a balance scale, any reccomendations. the calipers are frankford arsenal digital calipers.

    the crimp is barely noticeable if at all. will take pics when i get home. when i run my finger over the entire length of round you can barely feel it. will try to back it off a bit.
     
  15. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    you can crimp the fuck out a case and it should not over pressure like that. Generally on a pistol case where you taper crimp, when you go past a certain point it actually holds the bullet looser. If is not possible to over crimp a taper crimp to the point you have over pressure for a pistol round.

    Now it might be possible to over do a roll crimp where you get that kind of pressure. Strait wall pistol cases headspace off the case mouth so you would never roll crimp pistol reloads. Generally every strait wall pistol crimp die is a taper crimp die.
     
  16. sprite

    sprite Active Member

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    Do you have any check weights to verify the scale with?

    Stick your calipers on the case mouth of a loaded cartridge and see what you have. I set mine in the neighborhood of .377 (OD at the case mouth of crimped cartridge)
     
  17. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    yeah something is way out of wack. I would check your powder scale. Did it come with test weights?

    At least for the short term as you figure this out I would either decrease your powder charges or go longer on your OAL. Something like 1.160 - 1.165. I would load a few dummies with no powder or primers and test that they load out of your mags and that they chamber. After you chamber them look at the bullet to see if it hits the rifling. It's good if you see that they just barely hit but you don't want to see a deep bite. The reason being is if you extract a live round and it's locked into the rifling you can rack out the case but the bullet is still stuck in the throat.
     
  18. yar1182

    yar1182 New Member

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    check the od of a bullet with your calipers. Those are fairly consistent. Should be .335 - .336. Then you'll know if it's calipers that are off.

    Still you would have to load some serious shorties to get that kind of pressure. I would think you would look at it and immediately see something is not right
     
  19. sprite

    sprite Active Member

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    Knew that was true with moly/lead since the lead will not "spring back" like the case will. Didn't know if that was true with jacketed or not.
     
  20. sprite

    sprite Active Member

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    To avoid confusing the TS... .355 - .356
     
  21. gchang817

    gchang817 DADDIO!!

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    i used the case gauge and fitment was good. this is my first batch so i weighed each round's powder. i calibrated scale as well. diameter at mouth of case was +/- .02 off from speer manual.
     
  22. gchang817

    gchang817 DADDIO!!

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    the pistols i used were a glock 19 and beretta 92.
     
  23. sprite

    sprite Active Member

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    .02 or .002?

    .02 is the difference between no crimp and monster crimp.
     
  24. gchang817

    gchang817 DADDIO!!

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    when i go home ill have to check again
     
  25. Ebtromba

    Ebtromba Active Member

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    and the fired cases look like this from both guns?
     

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