RAID 0 optimization

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by AlcoLOLic, May 31, 2007.

  1. AlcoLOLic

    AlcoLOLic New Member

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    Finally bit the bullet and I am building an old aluminum/magnesium case that I customized years ago, with new guts. I plan to use RAID 0 in the unit. Here's the specs:

    Intel E6700 2.66
    Patriot 4Gig DDR2800 6400 in 2 sticks
    EVGA 8800GTS
    ABIT AB9 QuadGT
    Zalman 600w PSU (modular)
    2 Hitachi 500GB Spinpoint 7200RPM SATAII drives (3.0 Gb/S)

    I've deployed multiple readymade RAID5 solutions in the past on my gigabit network and they've performed flawlessly. This is the first time I've deployed RAID0 in a non-NAS app (i.e. desktop box with the OS), and I'd like to hear tips/pointers from you guys if you've done this before. As a "for instance", I've researched that Windows doesn't like RAID0 natively, and I need to boot from floppy and install my RAID drivers before I install the OS. I'm sticking with WinXP Pro for now, no Vista for me yet.

    Looking specifically for tips on RAID0 optimization...

    Thanks for your thoughts.
     
  2. AlcoLOLic

    AlcoLOLic New Member

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    Sorry, also should mention that the RAID controller is on-board (not using Windows as a software RAID controller), Intel ICH8R.
     
  3. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Tips for RAID0 : DON'T.

    RAID0 isn't even RAID. It's FAID. It's just striping.... There's nothing redundant about it. Honestly, hard drives are not very reliable devices. Sure they may last 5+ years. But when they fail, all your data goes with them. It's not like a video card, or stick of memory that can be replaced to restore your machine. You lose a hdd, and your data is gone forever. I have seen stripes that can be kissed goodbye forever due to a simple power failure.

    Do not ever run striping except on "scratch disks". Do not use them at all for a regular storage medium. There's no reason to! It's been demonstrated they don't perform better, so just don't use em.
     
  4. keleko

    keleko yes, he is

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    i was gonna say " :uh: "

    but this is better
     
  5. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Good god keleko, what was all that?

    Love that quote by Charles Babbage, though. The poor guy really didn't know how to ask the question he wanted to ask. I forget, did Babbage's Engine ever work in real life?

    - - -

    Anyway, to the OP: You REALLY don't want to use RAID 0, because if either of the drives fails you'll lose the data on both drives -- and RAIDs fail all the time, because if one of the drives doesn't respond to a request fast enough, even if the drive still works it will still count as a failure, and the RAID 0 will simply stop working. Poof -- your data is gone, and for no good reason most of the time.

    Add a third drive to store backup data and make it a RAID 5 instead -- that way, when a failure occurs, the RAID controller can just use the backup data to reconstruct what used to be on the drive that stopped working.

    (The RAID number is not the number of drives, it's just an indicator of the exact method used to store the backup data. 0 = no backup data, 1 = two identical copies of everything, 3 and 5 = just enough backup data to reconstruct a single dead drive, 10 = two RAID 5's that are identical copies of each other.)
     
  6. keleko

    keleko yes, he is

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  7. AlcoLOLic

    AlcoLOLic New Member

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    Appreciated.

    However, all important data is backed up automatically, daily, doubly redundantly on a RAID5 NAS and RAID1 NAS. I've heard running a RAID0 is saying loudly "my data is unimportant to me", but the primary reason I wanted to run such a configuration was for the touted performance boost. I don't need in-the-box redundancies as I already have those on the network.

    Does anyone have the demonstration data that I can study that jollyogre mentions above? I'd like to read where RAID0 hasn't been shown to increase bandwidth...so far, all I've read is that it *does*.

    Thanks for supporting my learning curve on RAID0.
     
  8. AlcoLOLic

    AlcoLOLic New Member

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    Oh also...for those that don't know...this is a 100% enthusiast rig. Nothing mission critical on it whatsoever...this is NOT an enterprise application.
     
  9. dorkultra

    dorkultra OT's resident crohns dude OT Supporter

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    i would say to ditch the raid0 and get a 15k scsi drive and mobo that is compatible

    thats going to give you a huge performance boost, but it is $$$

    cheapest way would be to just throw in a raptor drive
     
  10. CyberBullets

    CyberBullets I reach to the sky, and call out your name. If I c

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    QFT! You'll notice a MUCH larger performance boost from that.
     
  11. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    I believe what Jolly means is that RAID0 does not provide a performance boost above what a RAID5 can provide under most read and write conditions, or above what a RAID1 or RAID3 can provide under all read conditions. That is to say, it's not the fastest RAID ever.

    As far as this machine being "an enthusiast rig" with all of its data backed up automatically, I have two thoughts:

    1. Is the OS also backed up automatically? Can it be restored automatically as well? How do you feel about having a few hours of downtim to reinstall or restore your OS every couple of weeks? That's about how often your RAID0 will suffer a logical fault and stop working.

    2. Unless you can't afford a third drive to make a RAID3 or RAID5, there's no reason to have to put up with the constant danger of having to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. There are still plenty of ways your data can get trashed, so your NAS setup will still save your ass and justify its expense, don't you worry about that.
     
  12. TheDarkHorizon

    TheDarkHorizon \xC0\xFF\xEE

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    Depending on what you do, you will see increased performance. Thought it is only worth it if you do a lot of sequential disk accesses. For others, the performance increases may be negligible.

    To install Windows XP with Intel's RAID, you'll need to do an F8 floppy disk install (there's a link on the website with the latest F8 utility. I'm not sure what version they're on right now, but if you're using Windows XP, I would be inclined to stick with one of the 6.0 releases)

    Edit: Intel's RAID also supports Matrix RAID, so you can split up your array into multiple RAID volumes. Thus, you can put a RAID1 volume on part of the array and a RAID0 volume on the rest.

    Here's a link to some benchmarks for ICH8R RAID0: http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2974&p=1
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2007
  13. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    WRONG.
     
  14. AlcoLOLic

    AlcoLOLic New Member

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    Well, although I'm seeing that a lot of folks seem to think that there's no benefit to RAID0 in performance...I'm seeing bandwidth significantly greater than a SCSI 320.

    As for the RAID0 going down every couple of weeks...time shall tell. From my research the old RAID0 was fraught with issues, but the newer controllers are much more robust.

    Finally, don't expect to see a post from me on here bitching about it, if it does go down. If "Humpty Dumpty" falls off the wall, I've got one single disc than can rebuild what I need in an afternoon...unattended installation.

    The box is humming along very nicely. I've gotta say, I'm impressed with it.
     
  15. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    ignorance is bliss. You mind wants to justify what you did. A double blind study will show otherwise.
     
  16. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Um...right. So which one is it again? A RAID0 composed of two mirrors, or a mirror composed of two RAID0s?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2007
  17. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    Have fun with that. Don't say we didn't warn you.
     
  18. dorkultra

    dorkultra OT's resident crohns dude OT Supporter

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    i don't remember there being any mirroring in raid0. as i saw it, it was just a striped set
     
  19. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    RAID10, not RAID0.
     
  20. Mikey D

    Mikey D New Member

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  21. deusexaethera

    deusexaethera OT Supporter

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    I always get those two mixed up. So 1+0 is a striped array of mirror pairs, and 0+1 is a mirrored pair of striped arrays.
     

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